Who is the greatest Turkic leader? (REVISED LIST)
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15036
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Topic: Who is the greatest Turkic leader? (REVISED LIST)
Posted By: Bulldog
Subject: Who is the greatest Turkic leader? (REVISED LIST)
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 17:45
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Here is the revised list.
I tried to include a leader from each major Turkic State. I wish there was more than 10 options, there are still many more, AlpArslan, Alptekin, Baybars, Sah Ismail, Saltuk Bugra Khan, Razia Sultana, Alaeddin Keykubbad, Tonyukyuk, Kul Tegin, Bumin Khan, Orhan Ghazi, Ertegrul Gazi, Mete Han......................... Or instead I could open another post and include another ten and you could vote between the top twenty? ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Replies:
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 17:51
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Talk about covering different time periods and geography. Lots to cover. Each in their own right has taken a state under their rule to greatness. I will obstain from voting since I could rationalize any one of them as a top choice for starting or improving on what they already had.
Some of them were military geniuses but were poor governors. Some were state builders. The rare few had a combination of military expertise, statecraft and leadership. Take a guess at who they were. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 21:52
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Why isn't Yavuz Sultan Selim on the list? He didn't even get an honorouble mention. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 11:30
Sorry
There's so many great leaders that I couldn't include them all.
I tried to include a leader from each major state and area.
Maybe we could do another poll for who had most significance in terms of culture, influence etc....? ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 15:36
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Well, all had their points - Seljuk was the pioneer of Turkish entry into Anatolia, Suleiman the magnificent coined the golden age of the Ottoman realm and Ataturk did the impossible in re-inventing Turkey and paving the way for what it is today - but I voted for Attila the Hun just because he was THE barbarian king that shook Rome, yeah! ------------- |
Posted By: Sirona
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 16:12
| I voted for Attila as well. Maybe it's a very Western oriented answer but the decline of the Roman Empire was a very crucial point in history. |
Posted By: Giordano
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 06:28
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Suleyman the magnificent is nothing.His father Yavuz soultan Selim was great commander and during his short life time won great wars,when he died Suleyman found a great empire,great army and full treasure.He ruled in luxury for 46 years,don't attend wars ,did reforms as married his concubine! He gave the maritime trade rights to France and this became big trouble for the empireship for centuries.During Suleyman the magnificent ,all succesful events made the others.Sokullu,Barbarossa,Sinan,Turgut etc. I think western world loved the Suleyman a lot and named as "Suleyman the magnificent." ------------- War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it. Desiderius Erasmus |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:36
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Suleyman the Magnificent really was one of those Great World Leaders, he recieved so much repect even from Europe that the Itallians called him "Grande Turko"Grand Turk which is were this phrase originates from.
He expanded the borders of the Ottoman Empire immensely, made the Ottoman navy
one of the most powerfull in the world. He was also a very just ruler, law and justice was very advanced and developed, everybody the right to excersise their rights in the courts across the land, the poor were protected, traders regulated, there were standardisation laws and so on, its really quite amazing.
Here are a few examples,
Suleiman was renowned as a just and fair ruler, choosing his subordinates according to merit rather than social status or popularity. The Austrian Ambassador, Ghiselain de Busbecq, wrote of him, "In making his appointments, the Sultan pays no regard to any pretensions on the score of wealth or rank, nor does he take into consideration recommendations or popularity; he considers each case on its own merits, and examines carefully into the character, ability and disposition of the man whose promotion is in question.".
In 1553 Suleiman declared a law to stop the persecution of Jews via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel - Blood libels , decreeing that all accusations of the slaughter of Christian children by Jews be referred to the Imperial Divan where the courts would expose these lies. The preparation of the law included the input of Moses Hamon, a favorite doctor and dentist of the Sultan. Another symbol of the Muslim- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish - Jewish tolerance was the building of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synagogue - synagogue and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque - mosque side by side in the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Buyuk_Corapci_Han&action=edit - Buyuk Corapci Han which was built by Suleiman Some Christian slaves in the Ottoman Empire under Suleiman rose to positions of great prominence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pargal%C4%B1_%C4%B0brahim_Pasha - Ibrahim Pasha became http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Vizier - Grand Vizier for thirteen years. Suleiman continued the policy of religious tolerance toward http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews - Jews initiated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_II - Bayezid II (1481–1512), who had welcomed Jews expelled from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain - Spain in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1492 - 1492 . In a letter to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Paul_IV - Pope Paul IV (1555–59) in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1556 - 1556 , Suleiman asked for the immediate release of the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ancona_Marranos&action=edit - Ancona Marranos , who faced persecution after falling under Papal authority; Suleiman declared them to be Ottoman citizens. The Pope had no alternative but to release them, thus demonstrating the influence of the Ottoman Empire. Suleiman also employed a Jewish personal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician - physician , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi - Rabbi http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moshe_Hamon&action=edit - Moshe Hamon . In the city of Jerusalem, the rule of Suleiman and the following Ottoman Sultans brought an age of religious peace; Jews, Christians and Muslims enjoyed the freedom of religion that the Ottomans granted them and it was possible to find a synagogue, a church and a mosque in the same street. The city remained open to all three religions.
In adition to being just, tolerant and an enforcer of laws he was also a very cultured man and a great poet, his poetry is still loved today. In adittion he was also a lover and had one of the great romances with his wife "Hurrem Sultan". He composed this poem for Hurrem:
In addition to all this he was responsible for a golden age in architecture and was responsible for hundreds of great works, to realise just what extent this reach one only has to look at the "Unesco World Heritage List", Bosnia- Mostar Bridge and region
Turkey- Istanbul Historic quarter (including, Suleymaniye Complex-Mosque-CaravanSaray-Imarathane/House to feed the poor-Mekteps-Medresses-Markets, Fountains)Topkapi Palace extenstions and many other complexes.
Safranbolu area, many buildings dating from Suleyman the Magnificents era
Israel - Jerusalem, The Historic Walls and area
Syria- Aleppo historic area, many buildings date to Suleyman era.
Egypt- Cairo historic area, buildings dating to Suleyman era
A lion in war, most civillised and cultured in peace, patron of the arts and contributer to the arts and architecture of a huge geographical area, really he was a fantastic leader. That half a century must have been one of the best era's to live in.
I am Sultan Suleyman Han, son of Sultan Selim Han, son of Sultan Bayezid Han. I am Suleyman. To the east I am the Lawgiver. To the west I am the Magnificent. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:56
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Well I think I am somewhat agree with my greek friend. Even He is not a bad leader, He is absolutely for fram becoming best leader of Ottomans.
Yavuz, Fatih, Murat 1, Murat 2, Murat 4, Abdulhamit 2. All of these patisahs are better than Kanuni.
Also Ataturk are not much effective like others. He is absolutely effected and protected Turkey, but not effected world that much.
I think I will choose timurlenk(Even I dont like him) within these list.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:16
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Common, ok Yavuz, Murat and Abdulhamit maybe can be compared but Suleyman the Magnificent was not only a great leader, he left huge influence and is best remembered.
His system of tolerance, justice and multiculturism are the pillars of what is considered "civillisation" in the West today.
Most people respect Suleyman the Magnificent regardless of ethnicity, you don't just have to be a Turk to love this great leader, he stands for benevolent rule, equality, human rights, tolerance and justice these are virtues admired by all humans regardless of nation. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:18
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Could we give an explanation before giving a vote please, it will be more informative, I'd like to know why you voted for whoever you did and I'm sure others would aswell. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:59
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Bulldog, it would be hard to pick anyone other than Suleyman after reading your glorifying and lengthy post on him.
As Suleyman took the title of sultan his enemies were in a state of relief. His father had been a stern threat to the east and the west was hesistant to confront him. Suleyman was a true warrior and stateman. After his invasion and subjugation of Belgrade he took on the Knights of St. John at Rhodes. This was no small feat. Mehmet II couldn't do it. The Sultan showed his magnificence at this battle by allowing the knights to have unhindered transport out of Rhodes and dismissing military conscription for the young male inhabitants. For the Ottoman populous he carried another appellation, that of Kanuni - the Law Giver. His liberal laws were ahead of his time. Would he be my best out of this poll? I guess I'll wait for another day before I place my vote. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 15:41
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Common, ok Yavuz, Murat and Abdulhamit maybe can be compared but Suleyman the Magnificent was not only a great leader, he left huge influence and is best remembered.
Militarily, Kanuni was not better than Fatih
Both are great politician, but again Fatih was better.
Both invested culture much, but I think Fatih was more intelligent. (He have some ideas like building new rome ext.)
Fatih laws are as much famous as Kanuni one.
Also Fatih effect over all world was much more than Kanuni.
And most important point, Greeks hate Fatih not Kanuni.
 Kanuni was luckiest patisah, not best.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 16:16
Seko I'm going to try and go through the list to explain why I included each one, I'm quite a fan of Suleyman the Magnificent/Kanuni aswell
Also I have replaced Seljuk Bey with AlpArslan, so its one Seljuk for another. Altought Seljuk Bey founded the Empire, was a great warrior and lived till over 100, there is not as much information about him, the pollitical system of the state etc AlpArslan is more well known, Malizgerit had huge influence, he led the way for Malik Sah and the "Seljuks of the Rum", who had an amazing golden age, building hundreds of Hans/CaravanSaray;s, Hospitals, Schools, Baths, Universities, Mosques, Palaces, Millitary buildings all across Anatolia. Were responsible for promoting culture and the arts, Yunus Emre, Mevlana, Nasreddin Hodja all were from this period. Also it led the way to the Ottomans. AlpArslan's influence is too prolific for him not to be included.
 Malizgerit was a great triumph which had a HUGE impact as explained above, this famous conversation after the battle between Byzantine-Seljuks shows the nobility of AlpArslan.
 Since the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaming_of_Turkmen_months_and_days_of_week%2C_2002 - Turkmen calendar reform of 2002 the month of August is called in Arp Arslan's name.
Also in the "Ruhname" of Turkmenistan
Try to be the equal of the learned Pyragy and Gorkut, Try to be the equal of the valiant Alp Arslan, Çagry beg and Togrul, For Oguz Han people lagging behind does not suit It is the Türkmen themselves who can make this nation grand. Mankind is not always full of virtue or conscious of virtue; arrogance may triumph sometimes. Why does arrogance lead to calamity? In this world, if people establish the balance between their heart and the world, their deeds progress properly, in the right course. Though man lives on Earth, he is always watched over by Allah, the Almighty. Allah did not send man and then leave him all alone in this world. Every one has a friend or companion. One who follows and abides by the injunctions of religion and consults friends about his or her affairs always reaches his destination. But if one says, “I am the man. I succeed - no need for help,” one fails. “My Lord sent me to the earth and He backs me up” is not the right approach either! Here is a great site to discover the cultural genius and civillisation of the Seljuks of Anatolia, their extensive building projects across Anatolia are amazing. "Divrigi"Hospital and Mosque are on the Unesco World Heritage List, also there great buildings in Isfahan-Iran, Konya, Alanya, Sivas, Erzerum are most impressive.
http://www.turkishhan.org/homebase.htm - http://www.turkishhan.org/homebase.htm Mortaza
Militarily, Kanuni was not better than Fatih
Both are great politician, but again Fatih was better.
Whats the reason you think this?
Both invested culture much, but I think Fatih was more intelligent. (He have some ideas like building new rome ext.)
But Suleyman was more successfull wouldn;t you agree?
Fatih laws are as much famous as Kanuni one.
Fatih's laws were great I agree, the Yasa and Shariah law was the most advanced today, even if applied today it would be accepted as a just system.
Also Fatih effect over all world was much more than Kanuni.
Both are immensely well known, I don't think its possible to simply say Fatih II is better known, Suleyman the Magnificent is known everywhere and even taught in most places.
And most important point, Greeks hate Fatih not Kanuni.
  Well that's fine if you've got a problem with Greeks but most Greeks are very nice people like Turks aswell so adding points for annoying others isn't very fair.Its very rare for leaders to be admired and respected internationally, Suleyman is one of these. Fatih II by the way was also very tolerant, civillised and a believer in law and justice but taking Constantinople made him an enemy of Greeks and alot of Christians.
Kanuni was luckiest patisah, not best.
I think it was more than just luck ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Adalwolf
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 16:21
| Suleyman the Magnificent. Skilled military commander, and effective ruler. A winning combo! |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 16:26
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Whats the reason you think this?
aim of Fatih was a new rome, he was destroying older romestates one by one.(Istanbul, Athen, Trabzon)
aim of kanuni? he followed a lot gainless wars.
But Suleyman was more successfull wouldn;t you agree?
I agree, but Suleyman have more money, thanks too Selim. I accept Murat 2 was also a good patisah and give Fatih a full treasure, but not as full as Suleyman have
Both are immensely well known, I don't think its possible to simply say Fatih II is better known, Suleyman the Magnificent is known everywhere and even taught in most places.
I agree again, but I am not talking about fame but effect. Taking Istanbul effected world much more than taking malta.
I think it was more than just luck
but even under rule of Selim 3, Ottomans were as much powerful as Kanuni times. So even luck is not only reason, It helped much to Kanuni.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 09:54
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Mortaza you have made strong points for the inclusion of Fatih Mehmed II the Conqueror,
I agree he was one of the greatest leaders, who should I replace with him on the list in your opinion? ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 09:28
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Ataturk is one of the greatest turkic leaders of all time in my opinion, Obviously. Why?, His intelligence. :) |
Posted By: Afsar Beghi
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:51
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I think you cant compare these people with each other , cause they led the turkic people in different circumstances, so its hard to compare their qualitys. But at the end I agree with ataturk being the greatest, for his intellegence like said above and because he saved our nation and identity. ------------- Dadaloğlum bir gun kavga kurulur, Oter tufek davlumbazlar vurulur, Nice koç yiğitler yere serilir, Olen ölür kalan sağlar bizimdir! |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 15:47
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That's not a proper explanation, the other leaders were just as intellegent and visionary.
If you choose AtaTurk please explain why in detail and bring convincing arguments.
Just off the top of my head I can list some of AtaTurk's achievments.
Great warrior, fought in Seven Wars I think before the Independance War, was a comander in the epic battle of Gallipoli and Sakarya, was one of the very few people to recieve the highest millitary honour status.
Revolutionary leader, teared the humilliating treaty of Sevres up, united a nation and didn't bow to Imperialist Super Powers, became inspirational to other nations being occupied or at war with the same powers. Central Asian revolutionaries, North African revolutionaries, South Asian also admired what he did, Jina'h of Pakistan even called himself "BozKurt" for a while.
Intellegent and visionary leader, most of the population of Turkey was uneducated and technologically backwards, he helped modernise Turkey, set up a state educational system, gave woman the vote, contrary to popular
belief saw the problem wasn't religion but the nation not knowing their religion and
the few who did using and corrupting it. So he translated the Holy Kur'an , Sunnah and
Religous material into Turkish and handed it out to the people for free.
Now, also he saw Central Asia as being the homeland of Turks and urged Turkey
to set up strong links for the future. He supported "Isa Alptekin" who
founded the short lived Eastern Turkistan-Xinjiang China. Supported the
"Basmachi" movement in Central Asia, the Azerbaycan revolutionaries and sent
agents to all Turkic areas.
However, can he be considered greatest "Turkic" leader? that's another question,
yes he supported the short lived Eastern Turkistan and fought for Azerbaycan and
Turks of the Caucaus and Balkans.
But he won't recieve the same respect as he gets in Turkey and nearby Turkic areas
as in Central Asia. This shouldn't be taken as an insult its logical for this
to be the case.
Oh and p.s Who should I replace "Fatih II" with in the list???
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 15:56
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Kanuni, I dont think we need two leader from ottomans. One leader is enough, and I think It should be Fatih.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 16:00
Suleyman the Magnificent canont be removed, that's out of the question
p.s What are the reasons you had for choosing "Timur" ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 16:21
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Well I have not much idea about his cultural contribution to his own people, but I heard he contributed much. He is one of best general Turks saw.(I dont think anyone refuse this, He winned war against beyazıt 1, and beyazıt 1 is also one of best general ottomans have.)And he is somehow good politician, (at least his campaing at anatolia show this) he gain loyalty of anatolian turkish city states, and This helped him much against beyazıt.
But he is cocky(Like beyazıt), and fough against beyazıt without any real reason. Generally I dont like him much, but we should show respect for what he achieved.
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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 03:15
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It is really a difficult choice. IMHO, a great leader should be a great general and also should be a reason for a new cultural renaissance. In this sense, What I familier are the three: Sultan Satuq Bughraxan and Qaraxanid culture, Temurlame (Aqsaq Tomur) and Timurid culture, Babur and Moghul culture. However, Aqsaq Tomur is much more influencial to the whole Turkic world in many aspects, so my vote goes for him. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: borudjin
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 08:00
| you forgot to mention genghis khan, the greatest leader of all time. if you dont consuider him turkic, then why are his descendants, pretty much all the eastern turks' clan founders and ancestors(eg jani beg of the altyn orda in kazakstan) considered turks. ataturk was a great man and i admire him, yet its doubtful that he had turkic blood(probably an islamicised balkaner). this shows that most of u guys are from turkey :p |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 11:45
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Ataturk is from Thessalonika (Selank). Therefore he is from the Balkans. He was raised a muslim from a Turkish family. The extent of his central asian genes may be unkown to us yet that doesn't change the fact that he was a Turk. ------------- |
Posted By: Turk Nomad
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 11:51
Ataturk wasn't a devshirme,he was ethnicly Turkic.His mosther was a deep-seated Turk,father was also Turk.His family migrated Selanik from Anatolia
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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 12:29
| anatolia have not a lot people who is blond and blue eyed, but I agree with seko, He is turk.. |
Posted By: Turk Nomad
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 12:39
Kipchak Turks are originally yellow haired and coloured eyed =).Turks are not a one geography creation(like chinese) race.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 14:03
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What about Kanuni killing his heir, because of the bullsh*t he was fed from his o lovely Hurrem sultan and a vizier( I don't remember his name right now). If mustafa lived and would have gotten the throne, the ottomans would have risen to much greater hights..
And I would like to remind: During his rule, Yavuz Sultan Selim expanded the 2,500,000 km² of Ottoman land to 6,500,000 km²
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 14:45
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In "World History", Suleyman the Magnificent has a place among the greatest "World Leaders", he isn't just respected in Turkey but also admired outside Turkey, even in his age he was referred to as "GRANDE TURK". I've included "Fatih Mehmed II the Conqueror" aswell, that's two Ottoman Leaders. I can't include all the great Ottoman leaders, there are many other Turks from other State's who equally deserve a mention as this is the greatest Turk leader, that includes all geographical regions and state's. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Krum
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 15:46
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Ot seems that there are many turkish forumers here.I dont that Ataturk is the greatest turkic leader.I dont underestimate him,but he was important only for a modern day Turkey.When we talk about a turic leader it doesnt mean a turkish leaders but persons who belong to the whole turkic race.In that case Atilla is the greatest.
I also read in previous topics that turkish forumes consider parts of other turkic tribes histery for their own. ------------- It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. Plato |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 16:18
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Would you like to raise the case for any Bulgar leaders? the one who defeated the Arabs in Istanbul was a strong leader. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Mordoth
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 20:35
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ATATURK was the purest TURK ever , i think . His parents were the Immigrants of Konya ,and went to Selanik from a small village of YORUK TURKs . They were speaking Turkish while they were settling , because Karamanoglu Mehmed Beg ordered the language of the state to be TURKISH .
Those immigrants found a small village there named " KOCACIK " that comes from the word "KONYACIK" ( little Konya)
I have a friend who is a Yoruk Turk, with blue eyes and blondy hair .
Phenotype could not be the discrimination or mentality to criticize the ethnicity of people .
There are also blondy Kurds hanging around .haha ------------- If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :| |
Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 20:45
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I have heard he had Greek ancestors...
------------- |
Posted By: Turk Nomad
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 10:58
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lol
This is a greek lie.Here is Ataturks's tribe and family origins,he was a pure Turk
http://tarihforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13061#13061 - http://tarihforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13061#13061
Can someone translate?
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Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 11:20
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According to my own analysis I have eliminated Atilla, Fatih and Alp Arslan from being the greatest. Of this list Fatih Sultan Mehmed made the longest lasting cultural achievements but his military record is merely good and not great. ------------- |
Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 12:08
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I cant believe Suleyman the Magnificient got only one vote (now 2 ) and Attila
and Tamerlane got 6 and 3 respectively...just wondering but what did
Attila actually do that made him so great? and also, what exactly is a "Pure Turk"? ------------- |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 13:31
------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 18:29
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AtatTurk is Turk because 70 m peopel know him as aTurk, I think he was a great leader, He made lots of thing for his nation, even for us as Iranian.An enemy country like Ottoman empire changed to a friend Country Like Turkey for Iran, I think He was the greatest Turk.
Timurlan and the others like seljuks Only killed peopel in thousands, how we can call them great?
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Posted By: Turk Nomad
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 03:36
İs problem my english?I mean "original,non-mixed".
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Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 09:52
ohhhhh, I see now, good work  its a good thing you can prove that too, cause I have starting to have doubts about his purity, not anymore though! ------------- |
Posted By: Krum
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 11:43
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I think that the poll should be greatesh turkish leader not turk.I dont know for you but i distinguish turks in turkey and turks as a ethnic group.It seem that many others dont. ------------- It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. Plato |
Posted By: NikeBG
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 12:15
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That's why the poll is about "Turkic leader" (the bigger box) and not simply "Turkish leader" (the smaller box).
------------- |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 12:19
Who is the guy named Atilla the Hun? Did you mean Attila the Hun?  ------------- . |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 14:56
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Could those who vote please give reasons for their choice, there seems to be an awfull lot of "Atilla" or Attila (just for you Anton
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: borudjin
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 03:08
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the stance of turks from turkey shows why all the other turkic nations hate them! panturkism can never work, when turks form turkey try to prove groups like kazaks or kyrghyz are mongols, and place mostly ottoman sultans in this poll. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 03:21
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why dont you atleast read it?
I agree, Turks are little to Turkey centered,, but noone called kazak or kırgız as mongol..
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 14:23
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when turks form turkey try to prove groups like kazaks or kyrghyz are mongols, and place mostly ottoman sultans in this poll.
You can add your own addition if its bothering you so much, there are only two Ottoman Sultan's, previously there was one but due to popular support I added a second one.
Timur
Atilla
Mete Khan
Babur Han
Bilge Khan
Nadir Shah
AlpArslan
are not Ottoman Sultan's, 80% of the list is non-Ottoman I tried to include a great Turkic leader from each region.
If you arn't satisfied tell me who has been missed out and why he/she should be included. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: borudjin
Date Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 04:47
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Here would be my list Genghis Khan
Batu Khan
Attilla
Kanuni Suleiman
Timurlenk
Baybars(he was a kipchak)
Oyuzhan
Ataturk cannot be considered a turkic leader! only real proven turkic lineage should be the criteria, not the turkish republic definition of a turk- language, culture and identity.
geez dont you guys listen at all to nihal atsiz. i mean he was a crazy fascist but at least he made the distinction between turks
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Posted By: borudjin
Date Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 04:48
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i forgot babur khan |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 08:52
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You put Genghiz Khan in but have a problem with AtaTurk being there, I find it ironic as Genghiz never proclaimed to be a Turk while Mustafa Kemal Pasha did. I agree that Baybars was also a great leader but who would he replace on the list in your opinion/?Also give your reason's as to why you have picked those leaders please. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 16:30
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Saladin is not on the list:( and Mehmet II wasnt a military genius.he
was beaten many times.Kadı Burhaneddin beat him,2 times Albanians,and
the plans of the assault on Constaninopole didnt belogng to him.he was
a good scientist though( first mortar cannon was invented by him). Ataturk is the best Turkish leader.maybe the best of the world.and his actions effected the world very much. ------------- A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari ) |
Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 03:26
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Maybe it's better to change the name to 'The Greatest Turkish Leaders'. Where's people like Manas? ------------- Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 09:58
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If anybody has a problem, explain who you think should be added and why and then we can have a discussion.
Manas? I thought it was an epic legend. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 10:13
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İt is about a Kyrguz Turk:Manas
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 10:17
Kazaks and Kyrguzs are more original Turks from Turkish,Turkish Turks are heavily mixed,but they are still Turks and ı think we must call them "Turkic".
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Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 12:54
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Oh, and who was Tamerlame? It seems you have crushed one of your national heroes into being 'lame'...
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 13:34
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Rider
Oh, and who was Tamerlame? It seems you have crushed one of your national heroes into being 'lame'... Thanks for your input, however, if you could return when you have something a little more mature and relevant to add it would be most appreciated. When you have "Moderator" behaving like this, well what can you say, how responsible 
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 14:06
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I assume you kept Tamerlame instead of Timurlenk to adhere to the english spelling. By the way, rider is a moderator not 'Admin'. ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 14:26
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There Timur, Timurlenk, Timurlane, Aqsaq Timur, Amir Timur, if that's not enough, تیمور لنگ, Timur Gurkani, Taimure, Teymour, Conqueror of the World" تیمور جهانگشا
I hope everybody is happy  ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 15:25
| Think that Mete Khan didn't found an army with the system 10-100-1000. Think of an army without this system. I think Mete Khan is the best. What a great invention... |
Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 13:45
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He's the one I vote fore, Oghuz Qaqa. By the way, Manas is not only a legend. Maybe you should revise your list again...
------------- Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota. |
Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 25-Nov-2006 at 07:32
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What does Qaqa mean? All I know is Turkic people used Qaghan, Haqan, Han etc, never encountered a title like that.
Manas isn't a legendary figure. He was a real leader, maybe not that known to the other Turkic people, but in the eyes of Qirghiz people, he was a great hero. He was the reason for one of the greatest epoths in the world. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 01:02
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'Qaqa' is the Turkmen way of saying 'qaghan' or 'haqan'. ------------- Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota. |
Posted By: Evrenosgazi
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2007 at 17:08
| ofcourse as a turk we will accept turkic tribes history as our history.Why does this bother other nations. For me Krum Han is also my history as the delhi sultanates. But also we owe respect to their history and we must respect |
Posted By: Onogur
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 23:13
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I vote for Attila, Atilla, Attilla... Avitokhol.... does not really matter, how the name is spelled... everybody knows who he was!
By the way, he was kind of an idol to the most of the other candidates, even to Genghis Khan (however, it is hard to consider Genghis Khan to be of a turkic origin).
Attila is the One, whose steps were followed by the others. He was the One, who first united the turkic and the other nomadic people, and he was the One without who all other later turkic khans and leaders would have never been. He is the Greatest of all the turkic leaders ever!
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Posted By: The_Turks
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 05:32
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Nadir Shah. Coz I'm an Avshar ------------- PROUD TO BE TURKMEN... |
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 06:06
Attila, and the Huns as a whole, still have yet to be proven to be Turks, or even related to Turks for that matter. There is no conclusive evidence showing anything.
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Posted By: Hulegu Han
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2007 at 15:33
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Nearly half of participants voted for Ataturk. And it seems at least most of voters are Turkish Turks. All these are nonsense since everyone voted for their native leader. Anyway although Ataturk have big effects on Turkey, he never influenced other Turkic countries. Turks exagerate his historic role as musch as they do about Ottoman empire. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2007 at 17:55
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It would be nice if those who voted would actually explain why they voted for whoever they did. Alot of people have picked their favourite but given no reason for it. Ataturk was a great leader, he united the Turks of the old Ottoman lands, had expanded influence and worked together with Azerbaycan Turks and various movements in Central Asia, fought in many wars and had many victories ultimately resurrecting a state on the ashes of the previous one.
However, can he really be compared to "Timur"? , "Oghuz/Mete Kagan"? "Bilge Kagan"? "Suleyman the Magnificent" etc who founded superpowers.
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: AndronicusRex
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 04:37
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Tough call, really I'd say its a tie between Suleiman and Ataturk. ------------- Andronicus Rex, Noble of the Republic http://angryamericanaristocrat.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2007 at 05:06
If Attila can be qualified as the candidate...
Then quite frankly, I will have to vote for myself. I would have won if not for the fact that I am not Turk, or Attila for that matter...  ------------- http://swagbucks.com/refer/Malachi"> 
Join us. |
Posted By: TheMysticNomad
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2007 at 09:39
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Pekau, you can be Attila in spirit! The question here is about Turkic leaders rather than Turks specifically. Most of the scholars I have read identify the Huns as Turkic or at least proto-Turkic. I would agree that they were the first major Turkic group in history, but I would be careful not to call them "Turks" as the Turks (as a group by that name) did not appear in history until several centuries after the Huns did. I hope that made sense.  ------------- Unify All Countries! |
Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2007 at 00:31
I voted for Attila as he is my favourite historical figure, but Suleyman was the most successful among these.
Unless you developed a new theory about their origin, there are two options: Huns may be Turkic, or partially Turkic.
Are you sure that you are not mistaking him for Enver? As far as I know, he did not have any Turanist ambitions unlike you, Mr. Bulldog. |
Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2007 at 04:03
Attila says you do not make sense. He says that he can be Turk whenever he feels like it.  ------------- http://swagbucks.com/refer/Malachi">
Join us. |
Posted By: TheMysticNomad
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2007 at 10:58
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Yeah, I kinda thought that. Those scholars can sure be annoying! ------------- Unify All Countries! |