Who are the Dravidians ?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of the South Asian subcontinent
Forum Discription: The Indian sub-continent and South Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14772
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 15:20
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Topic: Who are the Dravidians ?
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Subject: Who are the Dravidians ?
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 05:48
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Their are a lot of opinions as th their origin & contribution to world culture. What exactly is the truth ? Are they different from Aryas, same as the polynesian ? were they part of the egyptian - Sumerian - babylonian civilizations which are said to have been run over by the Aryas ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Replies:
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 13:55
Perhaps the question should be divided into two parts. Who were and are the dravidians genetically speaking and who did they become by today over the last 10,000 years. Then the linguistic question as well, what was the oldest dravidian root language and where did it start to differenciate itself and merge with other surrounding tongues and at what periods. Besides all that there is another historical fact that needs to be clarified: Did panini incorporate a lot of "dravidian" vocabulary into classic sanskrit when he was overhauling the grammar rules 2000-2500 years ago to produce modern sanskrit? |
Posted By: Dear Sir
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 05:12
I think Dravidian is a linguistic term.Speaker of a Dravidian language is a Dravidian.
-------------  AHAM BRAHMASMI
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Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:19
Some people refer to them as a race as well. Others lump all subcontinent people together in the same asiatic subrace. The question that comes to my mind is how different are North Indians from South Indians genetically? Since it seems that the highest concentrations of "dravidians" would be somewhere in the south of India. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 18:18
That would be your worst nightmare, wouldn't it?
 They should recognize the grandiose Pakistanis as their own race.
Those Indian Muslim migrant Muslims shouldn't be included in the Pakistani race, or even be lumped with the Pakistani Punjabis, because that will just ruin your chances of being accepted by Afghans, Persians and Arabs.
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Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 22:53
Yes thats a terrible thought for a lot of people I am sure. Anyway back to the topic. Dravidian language, history, genes, religions and empires...how to define them versus north indian ones? Who exactly are the hard core dravidians today and who were they throughout history? This north-south differentiation is too vague. |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 01:26
I really admire the way you a bring a person to the point & the truth. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: M. Nachiappan
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 03:57
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1. Dravidians have been the creation of Robert Caldwell, a christian missionary.
2. There is no mention of the word "DRavidian" in the ancient Tamil literature.
3. Kindly read the postings appearing on the Aryan and Dravidian problems appearing in this forum by K. V. Ramakrishna Rao.
4. As has been mentioned by Vivek Sharma, "Are they different from Aryas, same as the polynesian ? were they part of the egyptian - Sumerian - babylonian civilizations which are said to have been run over by the Aryas" - had they run over tem, there must have been the same pattern as reportedly exhibited by the "race theory" interpreters. If not the other one that there is no aryan race and aryan invasion.
5. Maqsad creates confusion bring so-many things:
a. "Who were and are the dravidians genetically speaking and who did they become by today over the last 10,000 years.
b. Then the linguistic question as well, what was the oldest dravidian root language and where did it start to differenciate itself and merge with other surrounding tongues and at what periods. c. Besides all that there is another historical fact that needs to be clarified: d. Did panini incorporate a lot of "dravidian" vocabulary into classic sanskrit when he was overhauling the grammar rules 2000-2500 years ago to produce modern sanskrit?"
When Vivek does not mention "Dravidians", why Maqsad mentions it?
About the "Genetically speaking Dravidians", all the "DRavidian politicians" and "Dravidologists" would be more happy! That too, when there were even before the advent of Tolkappiyam, Ettuttogai, Patttuppattu!!
The he mentions about the "oldest Dravidian root" - even Caldwell would turn around in his grave!!!
Ah, the Sanskrit is just like some "vehicle" to overhaul, when the Dravidians were not there!!!!
The "All-empire Forum" readers and contributors should do some home work, before coming and writing something like this with pre-conceived, biased and prejudiced notions.
6. Race and language are different.
7. Script and language are different.
However, the Tamil poets said "Yedum ure, yavarum kelir"
8. Then, come the RajputGirl etc., started mentioning "Pakistani race"!!!!! and so on.
Long live "history"
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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 04:53
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Welcome Mr. Nachiaappan. You are a knowledgeble person, you would be able to bring the truth to light.
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: M. Nachiappan
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 05:16
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Dear Sri. Vivek Sharma,
Saprema Namaskaram or Vannakkam,
I do not know as to you are appreciating or otherwise, as the members of the forum behaviour is intriguing or contradicting or strange.
2. I cannot claim that I am knowledegable. Our Poet Kambar has said that writing "Ramayana" is just like "a cat who arrogantly attempting to drink the entire milky ocean" (Pargadal = the milky ocean in Tamil, of Sri Vishnu).
3. I only again request "members" to be careful, precise and upto the point instead of making pre-determined remarks.
Anyway, thank you for your comments (I have also read your mail).
Thank you again.
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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 05:32
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I am appreciating you Sir. Knowledgeble people never claim to be knowledgeble, others can simply see their knowledge. From your posts it becomes evidently clear that you have good knowledge of what you are speaking about. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 17:50
You really need to understand the fundemental differences between a QUESTION and a STATEMENT before you start ranting on here. "creates confusion"? This whole thread is about the definitions and facts surrounding dravidians, what they are and who they are. Read Nachiapan! Before you start quoting and ranting everyone here. I am not creating any confusion I am contributing points that need to be discussed and clarified. If you have any facts, or even any opinions then type them out here instead of these nonsensical personal attacks. |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 02:28
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He was expecting you to be knowledgeble about the issue, probably.
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Tipu Sultan
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 09:52
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the dravidians are the original inhabitants of this country who followed pagan beliefs like worshipping of nature,worship of mother goddess they were defeated by the invading aryan brahmins and were hence forth treated as untouchables. like the muslims of india,brahminism and aryans are also foreigner to the land of india. |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 11:33
Just because I am attempting to organise the cataloguing of the basics of this thread doesn't mean I am not "knowlegable". |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 11:46
Yep thats one of the most widely dispersed theories. I have also heard another one that when the brahmins came they also created genetic hybrids straight away through their progeny and used these hybrids as the brahmins, the other two casts trader and warrior were recruits into the brahmanic system. And the new cast, shudras, were the rebels who remained the conquered resistance. |
Posted By: Tipu Sultan
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 12:06
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yes it is valid sociological theory.avtually they are four varnas-brahmins who claim they are from head,the kshatriyas who claim they are from arms,the vaiyshyas whom the brahmins claim they are from the hips and the shudras who are from the feet according to the brahmins. but there are hundereds and thousands of castes and sub castes in india.there are gotras and what not.even among the brahmins the nambudri brahmins are of the highest caste among the brahmins themselves. actually the dravidians are these shudras and untouchables and the vaishyas and their castes and sub castes. |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 13:54
I don't actually get what you are saying. Could you provide a source? Perhaps explain it again? |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 01:40
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I asked him How do you know more about the original tipu than the original tipu him self. I am still waiting for an answer. He just makes a statment & then forgets about it, will not back it up with evidence. I even offered to invite him to India & show him around to correct his fallacies, but again no response. Tipu, I would again like to invite you to India & show you the actual picture, if you are interesting in seeking the truth. Your theories are devoid of any substance. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 08:03
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The main reason I ask is because whenever I go India people always speak so greatly of South Indian mandirs. They awe the size and splendour of them. The people I got this information, priests. What is this invading Aryan brahmin nonsense? Are you seriously trying to prove that all invading "Aryans" were Brahmins? |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 08:14
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Anuj, They brought this White Aryan Invaded Black Indian theory to suit their interests, to justify yet another invasion by a superior white race. But in doing so they didn't look at the Indian culture, something that persons like tipu telde & company Ltd. are repeating again. And when some logical questions are asked to them, they keep quit or change the topic. Most of the so called ruling Gods in India are not white / fair. Asura Mahadev or Shiv, Ram Krishna, Vishnu (Mitra), none of them are fair. They are either black or blue. The nagas are yellow (true to their mongoloid features).Niether are other great heroes like Parth, Draupadi fair. And the seat of these darkskinned gods is tibet & south central Asia. But you see some theories are made to soothe vested interests & / or hide their own inferiority complex, so can't expect them to come to India & see the truth for themselves. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Tipu Sultan
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 12:25
| well i live in india and have travelled in india and seen the brahmins(black iyers and iyengars and as well as white brahmins)how sly they act and the way they treat others(their own hindus who are of a lesser caste) |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 03:03
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[QUOTE=Tipu Sultan]well i live in india and have travelled in india and seen the brahmins(black iyers and iyengars and as well as white brahmins)how sly they act and the way they treat others(their own hindus who are of a lesser caste)
[/QUOT Why don,t you write about the attroicities committed by the muslim upper castes on the muslim untouchables ? I pity those poor untouchable muslims whose religion claims so called equality but denigrates them to the meanest of the social hierarchy. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 04:35
Congratulations. Now what has that got to do with Dravidians? edit: As much as I don't care about castes etc...are you trying to say that all Brahmins are sly? Are you actually generalising a hotbed of many cultures into what you have seen of the country and claim that this is a problem with an entire group? |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 05:37
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he forgets to mention how the black & white shaiks & sayyeds mistreat black kathiks, khatiks etc..
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 05:44
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maybe he would not have travelled to those places ! There is a proverb in India 'the outside always looks more rosy to travel '
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 14:37
What attrocities? The untouchable cast is a creation of hinduism from centuries, heck millenia ago is it not? So if the converted upper caste(from hinduism) muslims are practicing atrocities on converted shudra(from hinduism) "muslims" then that is a holdover from their old beloved system of hinduism is it not? Please elaborate a bit more here. |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 01:08
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Right, but that's a failure of muhammedan teachings. isn't it ? And thanks for your statement. I at least got somebody to support me against the baseless, hollow remarks of Tipu.
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 19:55
How is it a failure of Mohd's teachings? If he taught equality then its a failure of the FOLLOWING of his teachings. If I recall correctly he also said something like 72 castes would be created as offshoots of islam before the whole islamic system implodes.
Which particular statement are you referring to. I don't want to be misquoted or misinterpreted.
Which remarks? Can you be a little less vague I am not understanding you. |
Posted By: Aktufe
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 23:25
72 sects, not castes.... That hadith was tied to the "end of times," when 'fitna' (or fragmentation of the islamic community) is widespread. Its a horizontal division within the faith, not vertical. |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 01:15
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What time frame did he predict for this implosion ?
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Tipu Sultan
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 12:28
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sheiks and syeedis and kahattis-lol prophet MUHAMMAD(peac be upon him)said a muslim is a brother to another muslim.if a muslim is in pain them all muslims must fell the pain. |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 05:17
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Ok I'm not quite sure I was clear above. Dravidian thread. Discuss Dravidians. If it is your will, it can be anything, as long as it is about them. Any more comparision to Islam can be done in other threads titled as such. Any talk of it here will be deleted after this post. Come on......it's an interesting topic. |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 02:14
Read my post carefull before saying lol lol. Muhammad is never the subject od discussion, when muslims are discussed. The subject of discussion is different. which is why untouchable low caste muslims are not allowed toenter the premier mosques in India by the oppressive upper caste muslims. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:28
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do you have proof of this, and even if they do this, there is no such thing as a caste in islamic religion.
anyways i think dravidians are there own race, i dont know how they came about but they are definatly very closely related to the australian aborignals.
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Posted By: kingofmazanderan
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 04:33
| Ok wait who ever earlier said that Dravidians was made up by some one by the name of Robert Caldwell. I dont know alot about India or her people which is why i am reading this topic. I just was wondering if some one can clear something up for me. If Robert Caldwell made up the Dravidians why do i always hear Indias/pakistanis calling them selves Dessi? |
Posted By: kingofmazanderan
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 05:27
| Why no one answers my question. I know Indians and pakistanis call themselves Dessi. Is this refering to Dravidian yes or no? |
Posted By: AP Singh
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 05:34
| To the best of my knowledge the term Dessi is used for the opposite of Firangi ( Angrez, Brithisher). The people who speak distorted languages of their particular state are also called Dessi. |
Posted By: kingofmazanderan
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 05:43
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Thank you for giving my question some attention. |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 05:46
No. Desi means native. ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 09:04
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Thread closed until Omar finds it fit to reopen one day. ------------- |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 01:15
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Thread reopened with many of the more colourful posts hidden. If discussion continues off topic, then it will be permanently locked.
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Posted By: M. Nachiappan
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 00:45
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See the funny thing goin on.
I think, here, discussants write and debate without reading what is already available in the allempires.com on Dravidians.
I do not want to repeat.
The non-Indians have confused themselves about caste and varna and so also race and language.
In the so-called "Aryan Ramayana", the Dravidian Mandothari repeatedly call her husband Dravidian Ravana "Arya", "Aryaputra" and so on. Had the Dravidians been so conscious, they should have called themselves so.
Take the case of "Brahui" language and IVC of "Dravidians".
Had the Dravidians been there, the Sangam literature atleast should mention about it. But it goes no talks about Himalayas, Ganges, Nandas, Mauryas, Meru, and so on.
The study of "Sangam literature" considered as the extant of literature of the "Dravidians" bring out the facts.
As already pointed out, it mentions about "Aryans" seven times, but none about themselves.
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