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Maurya Empire (321 - 184 B.C.)

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Topic: Maurya Empire (321 - 184 B.C.)
Posted By: Jay.
Subject: Maurya Empire (321 - 184 B.C.)
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 23:07
The Maurya Empire was the largest and most powerful political and military empire of ancient India. The empire was founded in 321 BCE by Chandragupta Maurya, who was widely considered to be the first great emperor of India. The Mauryan Empire was perhaps the greatest empire to rule the Indian subcontinent until the arrival of the British. Prior to Chandragupta's consolidation of power, small regional kingdoms dominated Northern and Eastern India. Chandragupta's Maurya Empire liberated the trans-indus region, which was under Macedonian occupation. Then, Chadragupta defeted Seleucus I Nicator, who was a Greek/Macadonian officer of Alexsander the Great.


this map shows the Empire at it's largest extent.

It is said that Ashoka, grandson of Chandragupta, was the greatest Mauryan emperor. successful campaigns culminated in the annexation of Kalinga (modern Orissa). Overcome by the horrors of war, he was probably the first victorious ruler to renounce war on the battlefield.

The Mauryan economy was driven by agriculture. The State owned huge farms and these were cultivated by slaves and farm laborers. Taxes were collected on land, trade and manufacture of handicrafts were the other major sources of income during this era.

Following Ashoka's death in 232 B.C., the Mauryan empire started disintegrating. This was an open invitation to invaders from Central Asia to seek their fortunes in India. This period saw the rise of several smaller kingdoms which did not last very long.

Sources: wikipedia and kamat.com


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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb



Replies:
Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 09:58
Amazing Article Jay,
 
A bit more about Great Mauryans..
 
In 322 B.C.
Shortly after Alexander's death, a new era began in India.

In that year Chandragupta Maurya seized the state of Magadha in the Ganges

valley. Over the next twenty-four years Chandragupta conquered northern India

and founded the Maurya Dynasty, which endured until about 185 B.C. At its

height the empire included all the subcontinent except the extreme south.

 

     India's first empire reflected the imperial vision of its founder. He

created an administrative system whose efficiency was not surpassed until the

advent of British rule in the nineteenth century. Chandragupta was also a

brilliant general and administrator. He was responsible for the first military

victory of the East over the West; in 305 B.C. he defeated Seleucus, the

general who had inherited the major part of Alexander's empire and had crossed

the Indus in an attempt to regain Alexander's Indian conquests. Seleucus gave

up his Indian claims in return for five hundred war elephants and established

friendly diplomatic relations with the Indian emperor.

 

Life In The Mauryan Empire

 

     Seleucus' ambassador to the court of Chandragupta, whose name was

Megasthenes, wrote a detailed account of India, fragments of which have

survived. They give a fascinating picture of life in the empire. Pataliputra,

Chandragupta's capital known today as Patna, covered eighteen square miles and

was probably the largest city in the world. Outside its massive wooden walls

was a deep trench used for defense and the disposal of sewage.

 

     The remarkably advanced Mauryan empire was divided and subdivided into

provinces, districts, and villages whose headmen were appointed by the state.

The old customary law, preserved and administered by the Brahmin priesthood,

was superseded by an extensive legal code that provided for royal interference

in all matters. A series of courts ranging from the village court presided

over by the headman to the emperor's imperial court administered the law. So

busy was Chandragupta with the details of his surprisingly modern

administration that, according to Megasthenes, he had to hear court cases

during his daily massage.

 

     Two other agencies were very important in holding the empire together.

One was the professional army, which Megasthenes reports was an incredibly

large force of 700,000 men, 9000 elephants, and 10,000 chariots. The other was

the secret police, whose numbers were so large that the Greek writer concluded

that spies constituted a separate class in Indian society. So great was the

danger of conspiracy that Chandragupta lived in strict seclusion, attended

only by women who cooked his food and in the evening carried him to his

apartment, where they lulled him to sleep with music.

 

     Complementing this picture of an efficient but harsh bureaucracy is a

remarkable book, Treatise on Material Gain (Arthashastra), written by

Chandragupta's chief minister, Kautilya, as a guide for the king and his

ministers. Kautilya exalts royal power as the means of establishing and

maintaining "material gain," meaning political and economic stability. The

great evil is anarchy, such as had existed among the small warring states in

northern India. To achieve the aims of statecraft, Kautilya argues, a single

authority is needed that will employ force when necessary. Like Machiavelli,

the Renaissance Italian author of a famous book on statecraft (The Prince),

Kautilya advocates deception or unscrupulous means to attain desired ends.

 

     The Mauryan state also controlled and encouraged economic life.

Kautilya's treatise, which is thought to reflect much actual practice, advises

the ruler to "facilitate mining operations," "encourage manufacturers,"

"exploit forest wealth," "provide amenities" for cattle breeding and commerce,

and "construct highways both on land and on water." Price controls are

advocated because "all goods should be sold to the people at favorable

prices," and foreign trade should be subsidized: "Shippers and traders dealing

in foreign goods should be given tax exemptions to aid them in making

profits." Foreign trade did flourish, and in the bazaars of Pataliputra were

displayed goods from southern India, China, Mesopotamia, and Asia Minor.

Agriculture, however, remained the chief source of wealth. In theory, all land

belonged to the state, which collected one fourth of the produce as taxes.

Irrigation and crop rotation were practiced, and Megasthenes states that there

were no famines.

 

Ashoka, Greatest Mauryan king

(Greatest King of India second to Kanishka the Great Only)

 

Following Chandragupta's death in 297 B.C., his son and grandson expanded

the empire southward into the Deccan Peninsula. However, Chandragupta's

grandson Ashoka (269-232 B.C.), the most renowned of all Indian rulers, was

more committed to peace than to war. His first military campaign was also his

last; the cruelty of the campaign horrified him, and he resolved never again

to permit such acts of butchery. Soon thereafter he was converted to Buddhism,

whose teachings increased his aversion to warfare.

 

     Throughout his empire, Ashoka had his edicts carved on rocks and stone

pillars. They remain today as the oldest surviving written documents of India

and are invaluable for appreciating the spirit and purpose of Ashoka's rule.

For example, they contain his conception of the duty of a ruler:

 

     He shall ... personally attend the business ... of earth,

     of sacred places, of minors, the aged, the afflicted, and

     the helpless, and of women .... In the happiness of his

     subjects lies his happiness. ^2

 

[Footnote 2: Quoted in Vincent Smith, The Oxford History of India (Oxford:

Oxford University Press, 1958), p. 131]

 

     Although a devout Buddhist, Ashoka did not persecute the Brahmins and

Hindus but proclaimed religious toleration as official policy:

 

     The king ... honors every form of religious faith ... ;

     whereof this is the root, to reverence one's own faith and

     never to revile that of others. Whoever acts differently

     injures his own religion while he wrongs another's. ^3

 

[Footnote 3: Quoted in Charles Drekmeier, Kingship and Community in Early

India (Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press, 1962), p. 175]

 

     Ashoka was a successful propagator of his faith. He sent Buddhist

missionaries to many lands - the Himalayan regions, Tamil Land (India's far

south), Ceylon (Sri Lanka), Burma, and even as far away as Syria and Egypt -

and transformed Buddhism from a small Indian sect to an aggressive missionary

faith. Modern Indians revere his memory, and the famous lion on the capital of

one of his pillars has been adopted as the national seal of the present Indian

republic.

  

Fall Of The Mauryan Empire

 

     Almost immediately after Ashoka's death in 232 B.C., the Mauryan Empire

began to disintegrate. The last emperor was assassinated about 185 B.C. in a

palace revolution led by a Brahmin priest. Some five centuries of

disintegration and disorder followed. Northern India was overrun by a series

of invaders, and the south broke free from northern control.

 

     The sudden collapse of the powerful Mauryan state, and the grave

consequences that ensued have provoked much scholarly speculation. Some

historians have felt that the fall of the Mauryas can be traced to a hostile

Brahmin reaction against Ashoka's patronage of Buddhism. Others believe that

Ashoka's doctrine of nonviolence curbed the military ardor of his people and

left them vulnerable to invaders. More plausible explanations for the fall of

the Mauryan state take into account the communications problems facing an

empire than included most of the Indian subcontinent, the difficulty of

financing a vast army and bureaucracy, and the intrigues of discontented

regional groups within the empire.



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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 12:35
Jay
 
The map shows a second river to the west of the indus. Is that river the helmand or harrirud.
 
Map of Afghanistan
 


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Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 21:52
Great posts Jay & Ashok

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Posted By: Jay.
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 11:47
Originally posted by malizai_

Jay
 
The map shows a second river to the west of the indus. Is that river the helmand or harrirud.
 
Map of Afghanistan
 

It seems to me like it is the Helmand. Well, it is the longest river in Afghanistan and it's history was the ancient overland route from the lower Indus River. But, wasn't the Helmand's ancient irrigation and river-control system was destroyed by Genghis Khan ?


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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb


Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 18:56
Originally posted by ashokharsana

  

Fall Of The Mauryan Empire

 

     Almost immediately after Ashoka's death in 232 B.C., the Mauryan Empire

began to disintegrate. The last emperor was assassinated about 185 B.C. in a

palace revolution led by a Brahmin priest. Some five centuries of

disintegration and disorder followed. Northern India was overrun by a series

of invaders, and the south broke free from northern control.

 

     The sudden collapse of the powerful Mauryan state, and the grave

consequences that ensued have provoked much scholarly speculation. Some

historians have felt that the fall of the Mauryas can be traced to a hostile

Brahmin reaction against Ashoka's patronage of Buddhism. Others believe that

Ashoka's doctrine of nonviolence curbed the military ardor of his people and

left them vulnerable to invaders. More plausible explanations for the fall of

the Mauryan state take into account the communications problems facing an

empire than included most of the Indian subcontinent, the difficulty of

financing a vast army and bureaucracy, and the intrigues of discontented

regional groups within the empire.



So then the brahmin is the root cause for the next two millenia of suppression and subjucation of the subcontinent. This leads one to wonder what proportion of the hindu population actually is Brahmin and do they consider themselves so far above their underlings in the caste system that they would not flinch at selling out to mughals and britishers.


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 02:26
Originally posted by maqsad


So then the brahmin is the root cause for the next two millenia of suppression and subjucation of the subcontinent. This leads one to wonder what proportion of the hindu population actually is Brahmin and do they consider themselves so far above their underlings in the caste system that they would not flinch at selling out to mughals and britishers.
 
Mauryan Empire died beacuse of brahmin conspiracy.
 
Brahmins were undoubtedly the main factor behind the fall of Great Indian empires. Kanishka the Great (121 AD) was also suffocated to death by his brahmin priests just because he was more devoted to Buddhism.
 
Later Buddhistha empires like Guptas and Vardhnas were also called Shudra (Untouchables) by Brahmins.
(Though Guptas were also devoted toward Hinduism)
 
Gurjars were given the Kshatriya status only after they re-converted to Hindusim (8th Century).
 
In fact everyone who embraced Buddhism was disintegrated and insulted by Brahmin scholars.
 
Brahmins prepared Hindus Kshatriyas from hunas and other warlike tribes. These Kshatriyas were used to kill and tease the buddhisthas (who were called Inhuman demons and devils.)
 
Sun worshipping Dynasties like Ksahtrapas were also called Demons.
 
Brahmins also made the caste/Varna system very rigid so that no one could switch into other caste group, Which was a very popular and justified practice among Indian hindus.
 
Brahmins minister sanad priests also used to force kings to start a fight against another kingdom. Thats why the Indian Empire broke into small pieces.
 
Even after Muhammdans occupied India These were Only brahmins who played a vital role in devasting the reamaining Hindu Empires.
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 05:16
The brahmins would constitute something between 2.5 to may be 7-8 percent of the Indian population. They are a miniscule minority.

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: indiafinest.com
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 08:25
One of very significant character in all maurya empire is Chankya, he is also famous by name Kautilya-the inventor of economics, He was a brahmin and was of very high knowledge, He made chandragupta acquire the kingdom, without Chanakys history would be different.
Excerpt from another webpage :
"

Chandragupta  was brought to the limelight  of the Mauryan empire  by Chanakya who had a grudge  against Dhananda who insulted him in the court. The Nanda dynasty had lost all its capability owing to the extravagant life led by the rulers.  The tyranny  that was unleashed spread an air of discontent. The defeat of Punjab in the struggle with Alexander, set the conditions for having a change in the rule. "

Chnakya was the man/kingmaker behind maurya empire, he himself didnt ruled the country because he was brahman and he followed the path told n vedas that brahmans not to rule.


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www.IndiaFinest.com : Forum for India and Indian Culture
http://www.IndiaFinest.com - India Finest Forum is your Place to Discuss India.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:01
You are right.

In fact, in reality it was Vishnugupta Bhatt or Arya Chanakya / kautilya, who would be the true founder of the mauryan empire. Chandragupta was the founder of the mauryan dynasty not the empire. In reality it was chankya's mission to unite the country & Chandragupta just happened to be the means to the end.


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 10:30
Originally posted by ashokharsana

 
Brahmins were undoubtedly the main factor behind the fall of Great Indian empires. Kanishka the Great (121 AD) was also suffocated to death by his brahmin priests just because he was more devoted to Buddhism.


This truly baffles me. Why? Megalomania? Usually when a group overthrows a competitor it is done to sieze power and subjucate others but if these brahmans did succeed in becoming top dogs why did they not try to recreate the empires they replaced. Or did they try but failed due to a defect in their philosophy and way of life?


Originally posted by ashokharsana


Brahmins prepared Hindus Kshatriyas from hunas and other warlike tribes. These Kshatriyas were used to kill and tease the buddhisthas (who were called Inhuman demons and devils.)
 


This preparation...was this indoctrination and training as a sort of warrior race? Could this be compared to the brainwashing and training that the knights templar recieved or that the hashashins recieved? I assume some form of mind control or brainwashing was involved.



Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 02:59
Originally posted by maqsad

Or did they try but failed due to a defect in their philosophy and way of life?

Please avoid refering to a group of people as having a "defect in their philosophy and way of life?"

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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 03:55
Let us not forget the fact that the maurya empire was created by a bramhin teacher chanakya.

It was the rulers & the people who patronised the bramhins. They didnt have any power of their own just small pens & some books with them.

They were always a miniscule minority in the whole population



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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 03:58
Forgot to mention, they were also poor  people, living frugaly

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 07:30
Originally posted by maqsad

Or did they try but failed due to a defect in their philosophy and way of life?


Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


Please avoid refering to a group of people as having a "defect in their philosophy and way of life?"


I am not referring to any COMMON GROUP as inherently having a defect in their way of life. This is ridiculous. I said THESE BRAHMINS which refers to the brahmins that overthrew a legitimate buddhist rulership.  Hellooooooooooooo? If I wanted to say all Brahmins have a "defect" then I would use either brahmins or all brahmins would I not? I can't believe this. Thumbs Down

I am ASKING FOR OPINIONS if anyone can point to any defects IN THE WAY OF LIFE OF THESE USERPERS as to why they took over but turned the empire into a pile of fractured garbage.


Usually when a group overthrows a competitor it is done to sieze power and subjucate others but if these brahmans did succeed in becoming top dogs







Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 09:11
Bramhins didnt become top dogs, they were the top intellectuals, who are responsible for the cultural facets of the oldest civilization in antiquity, 

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 10:04
Well I thought just after overthrowing the Mauryan Empire they became elite puppetmasters or something like that? They were involved in that treason, so are you saying they never gained political dictatorship through it?


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 15:31
who were the auxillaries of the state in herat and kandahar, what was their relationship?

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Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 15:40
Mauryan Empire (ca. 323–185 B.C.) enlarged map
Found this map and though it is a bit clearer than the one at the top.
 
Also anothger question i have is regarding validating the total number of troops in the army said to be over 500 000. It seems too high.


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Posted By: Preobrazhenskoe
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 02:47

Although the Mauryan Empire stretched over a much greater land mass, who do you think was more powerful in a naval sense? The Mauryans or the medieval Cholas? The Cholas invaded Sri Lanka, Malaysia, and Thailand, and the only reason they didn't have all of India was because of the Western Chalukyas, their fierce competitors. So who do you think was more powerful? I have a feeling that most of you will say Maurya.

Eric


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Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 06:04
Me, I say Chola. Simply because of all that you said Eric. The main problem is there are no surviving Chola ships so it will be hard to verify this.

I agree, many people on this forum may say Maurya, simply because they are more popular.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 06:46
Their were essential differences. hte mauryas were land people, had strong armies, while the Cholas were sea people, had strong navies. none of these would have won if they exceeded their area of expertise. 

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 07:23
The Maurya's are known for founding India's first Navy though Vivek.


Posted By: Gun Powder Ma
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 09:12
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The brahmins would constitute something between 2.5 to may be 7-8 percent of the Indian population. They are a miniscule minority.


That is already quite big for a parasitic class. The size of the class of the Roman landed gentry or the Chinese nobility de plume was smaller.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 01:25
In my state maharashtra they are, 2.5 %, But I differ with you on the usage of the word parasitic. How would you define the other classes ? And what exactly is a parasitic class. I am looking analogies not examples. So please dont get passionate.  

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Gun Powder Ma
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 09:00
William McNeill in his ground-breaking 'Plagues and Peoples' uses the concept of micro- and macroparasitism absolutely seriously. Microparasitic are the germs which live off the infected people, and macroparasitic are the ruling classes which live, usually through coercion, from the surplus of the working classes.

At first, I was also surprised and a bit put off by this conceptualization, but it makes sense. India, he writes, always suffered from a comparatively high macroparasitism, that is its ruling classes were numerically larger and even more demanding on the working populace than elsewhere. Feudal Europe and the late Roman Empire are other examples according to him.




Posted By: Preobrazhenskoe
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 12:17
That's an interesting concept, and definitely fits in line with Marxist thought a bit. Being an American, I can vouch for the fact that the most powerful class in the United States, the CEO/Investor class (using politicians as mere puppets and eyes to sway floor votes in Congress, especially drug company lobbyists), is largely parasitic to the needs of the general populace of average, middle-class workers. More than any other country on planet earth, the United States Chief Executive Officer of a major corporation makes astronomical amounts of money in his/her salary compared to the average workers beneath them. This is in stark contrast to other nations where the ratio is much more stabilized and fair to contribution. It's true that (most) CEOs work very hard and deserve good salaries, but not the rediculous amount they make in my country. It's like kings of the modern age, dynastic lines of children who are rich as hell too and follow in daddy's footsteps, only instead of wearing crowns they wear a suit and tie (stole that line from a song, btw. lol).
 
Eric
P.S. Thanks guys for giving your views on Maurya vs. Chola. I'm considering making a separate thread for that one. We'll see.


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Posted By: M. Nachiappan
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 06:30
1. I carefully read the entire thread, as Chandragupta Maurya came all along the way and died in the ancient Tamizhagam (at Sravanabelagola as a Jain).
 
2. Tha Sangam Tamil literature records about Nanda and Mauryans. Kharavela in his inscription records about a "DRavidian Confederacy" which threatened his territories / Kingdom.
 
3. Kindly give the references or evidences for the accusations made against Brahmins - making "Kshatriyas" and settinmg them against "BUddhas" etc.
 
4. We have "The Five Great Tamil Epics" - Cilappatikaram, Manimekhalai, Civaka Cintamani, Valayapathy and Kundalakesi - these are pro-Jain and BUddhist works disparaging and denigrating HIndu religion (I can give references from the works mentioned).
 
5. The anti-Hindu attitude of the Jain and Buddhist during the period (c.100 BCE to 100 CE) has to be studied.
 
6. Incidentally, the first centuries is shroudded with mystery of "Kalabras", Jain Rulers, who are held responsible for the destruction of Tamil works, Tamil culture, etc.
 
7. These points have to remembered, when one delves much in the north and north-western India.
 
8. Again, Kautilya or Chanakya hails from the ancient Tamizhagam.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 06:37
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The brahmins would constitute something between 2.5 to may be 7-8 percent of the Indian population. They are a miniscule minority.


That is already quite big for a parasitic class. The size of the class of the Roman landed gentry or the Chinese nobility de plume was smaller.


Don't make stupid comparisons without any knowledge about people. The Brahmins are not landed people niether are they the nobility. They are priests & teachers, whose very philosophy denies them material pursuits.


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: M. Nachiappan
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2006 at 03:20
Mr / Mrs. Gun Powder Ma,
 
Kindly elaborate or open your mind about the remarks made about "Brahmins".
 
As I am from Tamilnadu / Dravdanadu, I have known enough about "Parppaniyam" and all.
 
But, I do not know, where you are located to get such idea.
 
Kindly express out.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2006 at 03:30
He is one of those who like to take shots at everything indian to cover their inferiority complex. Dont expect any logic or factual reply from him. He does not have any knowledge about. 

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 17:26
This is not stupid comments. The brahmins are not just parasites but probably the most criminal caste in human history.

Take almost any popular indian dynasty. its leadres have been killed by brahmins.

All kshtriyas - killed and called shudras by brahmins
Maurya King - killed by brahmin
Harshvardhana - killed by brahmin
Porus - killed by brahaman chanakya
kanishka - killed by brahamana
King of sindh - killed by brahaman chacha
Lagurvarmana king of Kabul) - killed by brahmana

.almost al popular leaders have been killed by brahamana.

Brahminas are a landed caste. Bhumihar brahmanas possess 75% agriculture land (above land ciling) and their private army 'Ranvir sena' kils  children and rapes young girls of dalist and shudras no a days.


Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 18:00
Originally posted by jamesbond007

...The brahmins are not just parasites but probably the most criminal caste in human history...
...their private army 'Ranvir sena' kils children and rapes young girls of dalist and shudras...
 
Aren't you making a grand entrance.
 


Posted By: K. V. Ramakrishna Rao
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 20:01

How these types of comments are allowed?

 

Do not you think that these comments disparage, malign and defame one community against another?

 

Instead of pondering over, you just welcome him with your response, “Aren't you making a grand entrance.”!

 

Moreover, he is responding to a thread, that was lying over since August 22, 2006 and the last person posted has already been banned. Under the circumstances, how he would respond?

 

Anyway, let “Jamesbond007” come out with evidences to prove what he has alleged are history or otherwise.  



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History is not what was written or is written, but it is actually what had happened in the past.


Posted By: Kashmiri
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 20:08
is it true what he says? its a shame that these things happen if true.


Posted By: M. Nachiappan
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 04:42

So the discussion turns into anti-brahmanic. 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 18:58
I dont understand 'anti-brahmanic'.

Brahman 'religious scriptures' are full of haterd towards shudras and untouchables (85% of total population).

see this link.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/worldhotspots/hindulaws.htm


Posted By: K. V. Ramakrishna Rao
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 21:27
Anti-brahmanic attitude is just like anti-semitic, anti-Jewish, anti-Islamic, anti-Christ and perhaps all put together working at different levels just to aattack "Brahmins" for anything and everything. And it would catch up, attract and get publicized in mass media. Even go through the columns of AE, there are such anti-brahmin attacks. Of course, the so-called "Brahmins" would be keeping quite without responding.
 
So, in the context,
Come out with evidences from the scriptures, we can have a debate.


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History is not what was written or is written, but it is actually what had happened in the past.


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 23:53
Originally posted by jamesbond07


...The brahmins are not just parasites but probably the most criminal caste in human history...
...their private army 'Ranvir sena' kils children and rapes young girls of dalist and shudras...

Goodbye... Mr Bond! This time you cannot escape my evil ban ray!

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Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 00:08
People, let's not let sentiments get in the way! The comparison that Gunpowder Ma made is purely economic. The Brahmins contributed few economic services to the society, yet had a large portion of the goods. I know, I know, there are other services they performed, of a spiritual and intellectual nature. But the comparison is talking about economics. Anyway, the comparison with the landed gentry in the late Roman Empire and late feudal Europe arose from the facts that this social class contributed little economically to the society, while being quite numerous. In this sense, just like the brahmins. This is typical Western detachment and abstraction, and it's not supposed to offend anyone, only offer new perspectives on history and society.

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What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi



Posted By: K. V. Ramakrishna Rao
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 09:15
It is evident that you are responding to the above ban announcement and trying to support the anti-brahmanic attitude drawing attention to the economic comparison of "Gunpowder Ma".
 
Whether the Brahmins contributed few economic services or otherwise, they systematic attack on them have been orchestrated and in India, we can understand more politically, economically, socally and even in the context of religion.


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History is not what was written or is written, but it is actually what had happened in the past.


Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 09:57
I don't see why Non-Indians should have some sort of hidden anti-brahminical agenda which would be needed for a systematic attack. In fact, most of the westerners' interest in the caste system on India is largely academic. Indians can understand more aspects of the Brahmins' role in society, it is true, because they are immersed in the Indian culture. But sometimes, outsiders can provide different valuable perspectives which shouldn't be dismissed out of hand just because they are outsiders. If westerners would have dismissed all outside opinions in this fashion, they would still have a 19th century mentality towards their own history.

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What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi



Posted By: K. V. Ramakrishna Rao
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 20:47

I have lot of evidences.

Anyway, I think we are deviating from the topic "Mauryan empire".

Even in the historical research on "Mauryan empire", read the books Vincent Arthur Smith, K A Nilakanta Sastri, Bhandarkar and Romila Thapar, you can find out how the Jain and Buddhist contexts have been used to interpret with anti-Brahminic attitude.

Anyway, if you want, we can have a separate entry with instructions to the posters that they should come out with criticism and argument based on facts or evidences. In fact, I have already challenged earlier to come out with evidences for a debate.



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History is not what was written or is written, but it is actually what had happened in the past.



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