When you studied history as a child, what were you taught?

I was taught that China was invaded by the Mongols.

And, the Mongols were described as voilent people.

Were you taught that you invaded China from a Mongolian point of view? Or you were invaded by the Mongols like the same I learned in middle school?

"When you studied history as a child, what were you taught?

I was taught than China was invaded by the Mongols."

They don't call it an invasion, they call it unification.

In Hong Kong, they call it a Mongol invasion of China, which I think is an appropriate term to use.

you mean resident mongols in china?

i've heard that theres more mongolians in inner mongolia ar than the republic of mongolia is that true?

In our schools we weren't taught very much about foreign expansions. The main topics were about what was happening in Mongolia. They said mongols were worse off invading other people. But then, we were using old socialist books and things might've changed since then. But in general, we in Mongolia don't really care very much about outside conquests as they didn't really change a lot. In case of China it is naturally taught that we've "conquered" them, but a difference is always made between "Zurchidiin Altan Uls" or Jin, which supposedly wasn't really China, and Song. And also they differentiate between invading and conquering.

I don't really know how they teach it in Inner Mongolia, must be something like warhead wrote.

Oh and I had a chance of studying in a russian midle school. Russians teach that tatar-mongols were savage and VERY numerous and invaded Russia. But, they say, russians fought so valiantly that the terrible tatars didn't have any strength left for Europe, so russians are the saviors of civilization. Mongols of Russia usually dislike this kind of history.

About us being violent, I think we're pretty violent, but who isn't?

is that true that there are more ethic mongols in inner mongolia ar than the republic of mongolia?

i heard that the core part of ancient mongolia is within the boarder of china.

is that true?

and ancient chinese seldom killed unarmed civilians because of the confucian teachings promoting the idea of being a gentleman.

Depends on what you call Ancient Mongolia.

If you mean the core of the culture and statehood of steppe nomads then they always centered in the valley of river Orkhon, starting with Xiongnu down to today's Mongolia (well UB is not there, but the so called central-halh is there).

If it's mongols of Hamag Monggol Ulus, the predecessor of Mongol Empire, then it would be the Three Rivers territory, the territory between the rivers Tuul, Onon and Kherulen.

If you mean the Mongol Empire, their core was in the Orkhon valley - Karakorum.

If you mean Yuan, they centered in Beijing.

Northern Yuan? They camped around the place where now the city Bugat (Baotu) stands.

The Bogdo Theocracy? UB, the valley of river Tuul.

Obviously, we've retained the two most important areas from foreign encroachments, so I wouldn't say "core of Ancient Mongolia" is in China. Although two very important areas are within China, the Ordos plateau and Hulun-Buir region. And of course Bargujin is in Russia.

The population of Mongolia is 2,5 mil. and China has reportedly 6,4 mil. or something ethnic mongols. I personally think that the real accurate number is around 3,5 mil. There are many thousands of mongols who live outside Inner Mongolia.

I don't believe chinese didn't kill unarmed civilians. They sure did some decade ago. Did communism corrupt the purity of chinese gentlemanness or something?

i mean ancient chinese with confucian values.

"In case of China it is naturally taught that we've "conquered" them, but a difference is always made between "Zurchidiin Altan Uls" or Jin, which supposedly wasn't really China, and Song. And also they differentiate between invading and conquering."

In fact the term "conquer" is never taught in Chinese history and is solely restricted to western imperialism.

"In fact the term "conquer" is never taught in Chinese history and is solely restricted to western imperialism."

not true!

ive been taught the term "conquer" in chinese history in hk.

we are talking about the mainland, not Hong Kong.

"In fact the term "conquer" is never taught in Chinese history and is solely restricted to western imperialism."

if it's said in such wording, it refers to all chinese in general.

to avoid confusion, i suggest u change the wording.

I don't think that it is true. The native land of historical mongols was the valleys of Herulen, Onun and Tula rivers. That is now the eastern part of Khalkha-Mongolia.  Today's Mongolia is core of all mongols.

I think that it is chinese politik that "There are more ethnic mongols in China than in Mongolia". In reality there are many han chinese who became "mongol" because they want to have more than 2 children. Scholars suppose that there are in inner mongolia about 400 thousend true mongols.

Well, I bet many Chinese have Mongol blood inside them. The northern nomads intermarried with Han Chinese all the time, and Han Chinese married with others. Dividing people up into ethnic lines isn't very smart to begin with, but I would say that Inner Mongolia has MORE PEOPLE than outer Mongolia.

I have read some books by Mongol authors (translations) from China. Genghis Khan is not depicted as a monster but rather someone who created the united Mongol identity by uniting the interwarring tribes (which are interwarring due to external intervention by the Jurchens).

U r right, 100%. But the true mongols in inner mongolia are n reality not more than 400.000 , as scholars think. In Shinkian is it the same, the han chinese are the majority.

"I don't think that it is true. The native land of historical mongols was the valleys of Herulen, Onun and Tula rivers. That is now the eastern part of Khalkha-Mongolia.  Today's Mongolia is core of all mongols. "

Inner Mongolia has more mongols than outer mongolia, census already showed that, its not just the population, but mongols as a whole. The number is not 400,000, its 4 million where the mongol population of outer mongolia is only 2.5 million.

They could have used this say in the 1200s not that it would have made that much of a difference but really how can say a people not even numbering 1 million conquer such a vast expanse???

"With regards China, there is no China that time."

the Han culture means China. The term, China, refers to the middle kingdom, and the descendants of Huangdi.

It was drived from the chin dynasty which unified the chinese world in 221 bc.

there was china during that time and it was song. however, north china was occupied by the jerchens. yet, the jerchens were later incorporated into the han culture.

all descendants of haungdi mean china. han, tang, song are all chinese dynasties, yuan and manchu are foreign.

"the Han culture means China. The term, China, refers to the middle kingdom, and the descendants of Huangdi."

Actually it means more geographic and politically. Since both the Jin and Song called their empire the middle kingdom. When the ambassador of Jin asked Genghis to kowtow to the newly enthroned emperor as wastypical of the northern nomads at the time. Genghis spat to the south and said "I thought the emperor of the middle kingdom was suppose to be the son of heaven but now it turns out to be him!"

"It was drived from the chin dynasty which unified the chinese world in 221 bc."

Actually the earliest evidence of the word Middle Kingdom was found in the scripts of Western Zhou.

"there was china during that time and it was song. however, north china was occupied by the jerchens. yet, the jerchens were later incorporated into the han culture."

To the people of other places, it was Jin since it was more powerful.

It is widely known that china fakes the history and statistics of national minorities. I don't believe that so many mongolians live in inner mongolia. My friend's father studies central asian history and culture, particularly mongolian folklore, songs, dances etc.. He speaks mongolian perfectly and visited outer Mongolia many times, several times inner Mongolia,  also Kyrgyzistan, Kazakhstan and Tuva.

He said the following story:

He found in inner Mongolia someone who speak mongolian with great difficulty. There were a few nomad people, they spoke their native language understandably, but even their language was strongly influenced by chinese. In towns he saw nobody speaking mongolian, the inner mongolians are over sinified. At last he visited a concert, and saw a singer who sang on mongolian. After the concert he wanted to speak with the singer, but the singer said: "I know only the text of the song on mongolian, apart from that I don't speak mongolian" He also visited a university in inner mongolia, but the teacher,who teaches the inner mongolians their native language, speaks self very wrongly and broken mongolian. 

"It is widely known that china fakes the history and statistics of national minorities. I don't believe that so many mongolians live in inner mongolia. "

Widely known to whom?

The statistic is agreed by the U.N.

"He found in inner Mongolia someone who speak mongolian with great difficulty. There were a few nomad people, they spoke their native language understandably, but even their language was strongly influenced by chinese. In towns he saw nobody speaking mongolian, the inner mongolians are over sinified. At last he visited a concert, and saw a singer who sang on mongolian. After the concert he wanted to speak with the singer, but the singer said: "I know only the text of the song on mongolian, apart from that I don't speak mongolian" He also visited a university in inner mongolia, but the teacher,who teaches the inner mongolians their native language, speaks self very wrongly and broken mongolian.  "

All it means is sinification, nothing about their ethnicity and origin which were mongol.

blitz, are you a K�lsche Jung?

"Actually the earliest evidence of the word Middle Kingdom was found in the scripts of Western Zhou."

i mean the term, china!

the english term of china was drived from chin.

I'm native German myself.  so I guess you're a foreign student studying here?

"Its actually derived from a indian sascrit"

no, its not.

both sino and china were derived from the word chin.

that's what it says in many chinese history text books.

please provide some source if u claim otherwise.

"no, its not.

both sino and china were derived from the word chin."

No, I repeat,l thats an old misconception thats already sdiscarded by well learned scholars of today.

"that's what it says in many chinese history text books."

And these are wrong. China sounds nothing like Qin.

"please provide some source if u claim otherwise."

Grousset's "rise and splendour of Chinese Empire"

anyways, im just curious.

do u speak mandarin?

Badema ch geh shig, iim mongol ner haana baidag yum? Badamaa geech. Er em egshigiin yalgaag medehgyi baij bitgii mongol heltei gej hutsaa.

I only heard about Tengger. He got famous because he sang the theme of an inner mongolian tv drama about mongolian rebels against chinese. A year ago he came with a concert and in an interview he went like "our beloved leader Hu Jintao" etc, so only about 100 people watched his concert. Other people are unknown in Mongolia, no wonder, they probably all perform in chinese.

On the other hand, Inner Mongolia is the only market where our performers make money. Selling albums in Mongolia is not really profitable.

Check out what's really happening on the musical front: http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/26/news/letter.html - http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/26/news/letter.html  The article from NYT is called like "Mongolian heavy metal leaves Chinese panicky "

It's a funny situation with mongolian rock. Inner mongolians sing on tv old rock songs from Mongolia in a traditionalized manner which makes it sound really weird.

What a strupid idea is this? He must be a chinese who wrote this, like so many 16 bill. chinese.

Hi cliveerknell and Badema,

Danke, es geht mir gut!  It would be nice to make such trip. I indeed plan to go to Mongolia with my outer mongolian buddies this summer. Maybe also to inner Mongolia.

But I still believe my friend's father. He said that inner mongolians are ethnically cinified.

The outer mongolians look very different from inner mongolians(whom I know), strong, heavy, skinnful, with "big" head,  whereas the inner mongolian guys are very chinese looking with bad teeth, thin, who speak little bit mongolian with chinese dialect.

Thank you.

PS:There was in about 1960 chinese state campaign against many inner mongolians which were killed  in chinese prisons. Is it true?