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Origins of the name "Istanbul"

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12877
Printed Date: 29-Apr-2024 at 03:47
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Topic: Origins of the name "Istanbul"
Posted By: mamikon
Subject: Origins of the name "Istanbul"
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 21:06
I have just come about a book by one Roger Crowles titled 1453.

According to the book, one theory of the appearance of the name "Istanbul" came from 13-14th centuries, when the Ottoman Empire just has began its ascent.

The theory is as follows:

Greeks (as well as Armenians) usually referred to "Constantinapolis" as "Polis".

"into the city", in Greek translates into "cis tin Polin", which to the ears of Turks may have been similar to "is tan bulis" or "Istanbul".

what do people think of this?



Replies:
Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 21:12
It is widely known fact, not a theory.

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Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 21:29
oh, I didnt know LOL

sorry for the useless thread


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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 06:48
Yes, Greeks never miss an opportunity to boast that is a Greek word, which is actually true.
Most of the names of the cities in the Balkans are corruptions of their old Greek names. Like for instance:

GR------------------TR---------------------BG
Adrianopol       Edirne                    Odrin
Philipopol         Filibe                      Plovdiv


Posted By: tsar
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 06:55
Originally posted by bg_turk

Yes, Greeks never miss an opportunity to boast that is a Greek word, which is actually true. Most of the names of the cities in the Balkans are corruptions of their old Greek names. Like for instance:GR------------------TR---------------------BGAdrianopol        Edirne                    OdrinPhilipopol         Filibe                      Plovdiv


There is some cities with roman names as well.
    


Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 07:17
Originally posted by bg_turk

Most of the names of the cities in the Balkans are corruptions of their old Greek names. Like for instance:

GR------------------TR---------------------BG
Adrianopol       Edirne                    Odrin
Philipopol         Filibe                      Plovdiv
 
Actually in Greek it's:
Adrianoupolis
Philippoupolis
 
 


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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 07:27

A Persian proverb says "The problem of this fountain is from the fountainhead", it comes from this famous Persian poem of  Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent, the greatest Ottoman sultan:

Dideh az atash del gharghe dar ab ast mara
Kar in chesmeh ze sar chemeh kharab ast mara

(From the fire of the heart, my eye has been drowned in the water
The problem of this fountain is from the fountainhead)

Unfortunately in the eye of Europeans Turks have been always an uncivilised people even after hundreds years ruling the greatest empires of the world, it is really an insult to say that the compatriots of Rumi who his Greek poems are being compared to poems of great Greek poets, couldn't undrestand the meaning of the Greek phrase of "cis tin Polin" and thought this is the name of the city, the more interesting thing is that it is said Turks even couldn't pronounce this phrase correctly, so they changed it to Istanbul!! Sorry this is nothing more than a joke!

Where is the Eurasian Land Bridge?

As I mentioned several times Istanbul is a very Persian word which means exactly "Land Bridge", I hope you at least know that Afghanistan means "Land of Afghans" and its capital Kabul means "Mountain Bridge".

Greeks (as well as Armenians) usually referred to "Constantinapolis" as "Polis"

Polis means city in the Greek language, Persians and Turks also usually referred to their great cities "Istana/Astana" which also means "City/Capital" in the Persian language (the new capital of Kazakistan is also called "Astana"), for a long time Istanbul was the most famous city which was called "Astana".

6, Astanih [Istanbul]:

Astanih (vol 1, p 177), is the same Islambul, capital of Osmani (Ottoman), in the old times it was known as Astanih.

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/books/howthekwasdestroyed/chapter_04.html - The role of the Istanbul Centre in working towards hitting the Khilafah State

it was the nationalist policy of the unionists within the state that evoked the nationalist idea in the Ottoman elements. Hence, the Albanians in Astana founded their own Committee, soon to be followed by the Circassians and the Kurds.

The Arabs for their part established the Committee of "Arab-Ottoman Brotherhood" in Astana and they opened the Committee’s club under the same name.

It is in the interest of the Astana government to coerce the Syrians to leave their homelands. Arab lands, especially Iraq and Yemen, must be turned into Turkish colonies, in order to spread the Turkish language which must be the language of the Deen.

And you have to trust the fact that the Turkish Committee, which you have witnessed in Astana and in the other parts inhabited by Turkish elements, does not clash in any way with the Arab aspirations.



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Posted By: Akolouthos
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 07:28

A question on a slightly related note, if you guys will indulge my ignorance. Does anyone know whether or not "Izmir" is a corruption of "Smyrna"? And if not, how did it come by its name?

-Akolouthos


Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 07:34
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Where is the Eurasian Land Bridge?

As I mentioned several times Istanbul is a very Persian word which means exactly "Land Bridge", I hope you at least know that Afghanistan means "Land of Afghans" and its capital Kabul means "Mountain Bridge".

 
The only flaw in this theory is that the term "Istan" is an ending not a preffix in words.
 
If that was the case then the city should have been called Bulistan, no?


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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 07:40

"The name İstanbul comes from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language - Greek words εις την Πόλη – eis tēn Pólē (pronounced [is tim boli]) or στην Πόλη, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek - Ancient Greek eìs tēn Polin (εἰς τήν Πόλιν) and meaning "in the city" or "to the city". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul#_note-0 - [2] Similar examples of modern Turkish town names derived from Greek are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0zmit - İzmit (from İznikmit which was Nicomedia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0znik - İznik (from Greek, Nicaea: "eis tin Nikaia" (pron. [is tin nikea]), becoming [znik].

The intermediate form "Stamboul" was commonly used by the Turks in the 19th century. Because of the custom of affixing an i before certain words that start with two consonants (as in "İzmir" from Smyrna: in a coincidence of s + m, the s turns to z in pronunciation, as has been attested since early Byzantine times and in modern Greek usage), it was pronounced in Turkish as İstambul. (The /m/ in the middle is also an example of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assimilation_%28linguistics%29 - linguistic assimilation , whereby the /n/ becomes an /m/ before a /p/ or /b/, as in çenberçember, anbarambar; such rules are not, however, always observed in proper nouns like Istanbul. A similar change occurs in Greek, where an /n/ before a /p/ becomes an [m], and the /p/ after /n/ becomes a b in pronunciation .)

  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul#_note-desire - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul#_note-desire


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 08:38
The only flaw in this theory is that the term "Istan" is an ending not a preffix in words.
 
If that was the case then the city should have been called Bulistan, no?
 
There are also many Persian words which start with "Istan" such as "Istandar" which means "Governor", Bulistan is a correct word in the Persian language but it means "Land of Bridges" not "Land Bridge".


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Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 09:40

This theory that "Istanbul" came from "Eis tin Polin" is a joke? This was how everyone in Constantinople called the city and it was such a usual sound in the ears of Turks that named the city Istanbul (which is a corruption). That's what first came to the turkish mind when the Turks conquerred Constantinople regarding the name of the city. Constantinopolitans Greeks know it very well from the coexistence with the Turks in Istanbul. All the other explanations are nothing more than constructed theories to cut off even the new name of this city from its greek origin.



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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 09:53
Well  Ottomans  called city  as consantinapol, not  istanbul.
 
 
Infact Cyrus theory is as good as greek one.(Infact better)
 
Dont you think, Turks had ideas about istanbul, much  before than ottomans? That city was capital of byzantium empire.  So  It is sensible, Turks named or  at least heard name of city far from  before 1453.In fact most probably before 1000 too.
 
 
 


Posted By: Seljuk
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 10:15
I heard that Persian Land Bridge teory before from an iranian friend, and it is compleately sensible, considering Persian is one of the main word supplier of Ottoman language and Turks are familiar with it from Seljuk times.



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Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 10:58

I have a question to ask...

If this "Cyrus theory" or the "theory of an iranian friend" (that's how the Turks in this thread call it) is correct, I wonder why Turks don't know it? Most of the Turks I have talked with about this subject don't know this theory and the few who know it, told me that they learned it recently.

If I was a Turk and the name of this city meant something in my language I wouldn't expect from Cyrus or anyone else to explain it to me. 

So, accept the original name that your ancestors gave to this city which is accepted worldwide to be of the greek phrase (it's not a shame or negative indication) and waive the newly invented theories to give a different content to this name.


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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 11:04
Originally posted by dorian

Most of the Turks I have talked with about this subject don't know this theory and the few who know it, told me that they learned it recently.



Most of the Turks do not care about the name of the city or they think it is a Turkish name. I learned about the Greek theory about the name from the Internet. The Iranian theory looks equally plausible though now that I have learned about it.


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 11:14

Name of city is persian, so It does not mean  anything at turkish langauge.

Infact It is not  us who have complex but greeks, almost all of our  large cities have greek name.  So I dont know why should we  have complex about istanbul.
 
But what  cyrus said is  more sensible  than  eis tan poli  and  stupid turk who  have  no  idea about what  is eis tan poli  means.
 
 


Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 11:43

You should know the history of its name better then.

You should know that the name "Konstantinoupolis" was firstly turned into "Konstantiniye" by the Ottomans. This was the official name that was used
 
A second name which was popular too was "Stanbulin" (stin Polin) which is the same as "Istanbul" (eis tin Polin). The two greek phrases in brackets mean exactly the same.
 
Another name which was used in the 19th century was "Stamboul".
 
So, what about these three names which derived from the same phrase? Is this a coincidence?
 
Besides, in the 13th century Arabs used the appellation "Istinpolin" from the popular phrase too. Through a series of speech permutations, this name became Istanbul which became the official name in 1923 although all the inhabitants after the conquest used it long before.


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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 12:00
 
According to a popular story that has existed for many years, the Byzantines did not refer to the city by its actual name, but, because of it size, simply as 'Polis' (the City), and when they wanted to say 'to the City', they said 'eist enpolin' (is-tin-polin), which was the (possible) origin of the name 'Istanbul'. Recent research has shown that the name 'Istanbul' was used if not during the Byzantine period, at least during the 11th century and that the Turks knew the city by this name. Istanbul has had other names at various times but none of them was used widely or for any great length of time. During the Turkish period the names 'Dersaadet' and 'Deraliye' were used. Some official correspondence and coins had the transcription of 'Konstantinoupolis'or 'Konstantiniye', although the use of the name 'Konstantiniye' was prohibited at one time during the Ottoman period by Sultan Mustafa III, its use continued, to be abandoned during the republican period.
 
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/istanbul.html - http://www.sephardicstudies.org/istanbul.html
 
That is more sensible.
 


Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 12:37
You know, this name was widespread and common in the east because Arabs and Persians heared the greeks calling Constantinople like this. They used the name that the inhabitants of the city used ("Polis" and "Eis ten Polin"). Each nation didn't form a different name for the same city. And of course after the conquest this name was still used by the old and new inhabitants of Constantinople though it was not the official name.
 
That's what happened as well with the name Yunan which was used by all the these nations to call the Greeks.
 
Istanbul (Eis ten Polin) , Stanbulin (Sten Polin), Stamboul were used by the Turks, they are congener, they came from the same phrase and they can be easily identified with the sounds of the two forms of the greek phrase. All these are not a coincidence and cannot be explained by the above theory (though it seems plausible) but by the greek phonology!!


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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 13:50
If somebody would give me just 1 Euro for everytime this has been discussed on AE, I could go on holiday to blooming Istanbul/Konstantinople/Byzance or what ever it's called this summer.
Wake me up, if something new comes out of this.

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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">


Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 16:43
too many city names in Anatolia(ewen the name of anatolia) greek.
but itsnt a big deal. ewen the names were chineese it wouldnt change the owners of the cities. 


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Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 18:15
Apparently, this is a never ending story - repeating itself endlessly.
 
So I thought back on the emotions I had visiting this great city almost 40 years ago, and as usual - I started humming a few songs reflecting that mood...
Here they are:
 
In the Mood
Slow Boat to China
Tango Jealousy
Anna Luenda
Nobody knows the trouble I've Seen
Blue Moon
Unchained Melody
Last Dance
 
There you go - 8 great songs to define a great city. What more can Turks or Greeks ask for?
Why should anyone define the city this way?
Well - this definition is as good as anything that noone can agree on - specially if you read the first letters of the songs vertically.
 
Turks and Greeks - feel free to adapt this new definition - free of charge.Wink

And for future reference - this is now the official AE definition - no need to argue anymore on this issue here on AE, thank you. Smile
 
 
  
 
 


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Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 20:07
Originally posted by erkut

too many city names in Anatolia(ewen the name of anatolia) greek.
but itsnt a big deal. ewen the names were chineese it wouldnt change the owners of the cities. 
 
Nobody tries to give nationalistic extensions to this subject.. Don't worry..
 
 


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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 04:20
Constantinople was not the only city which was conquered by Ottomans in the 13-14th centuries and they changed its name, near Constantinople there was the large Byzantine city of Dorylaeum which was also conquered by Ottomans in the same years and they changed its name to "Eskisehir", I think Greeks referred to this city "eis tin Sehir" Wink (Sehir/Shahr means City in the Persian language and there are several cities in Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikstan, ... with this suffix)!

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Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 13:53

Cyrus,

this s completely irrelevant with the topic. We are talking about the capital of the Empire which was a specific case.
 
Generalizations don't add anything...


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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: Bashibozuk
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 05:33
almost all of our  large cities have greek name.
 
I am not sure how many times I should repeat myself to end the total ignorance, but I'll unfortunately write it again. None of the city names in Turkish except three Pontian ones and Istanbul are derivates of any Greek word. And almost all of those Pontian cities with the colony cities in coastal regions of Aegean were either renamed by Greeks or corruption of native names. I am not to make a list to enlighten your darkness now but if you ask me the origins of any city names I'll try to answer it for you...
 
Ankara- Ancyra (Phrygian)
 
İzmir- Smurnu (Luvian)
 
Bursa- Prussa (Bythnian)
 
Konya- Ikunia (Luvian/Hittite)
 
Adana- Uru Adaniya (Luvian/Hittite)
 
Kayseri/Mazaka- Mazaka (Hittite)
 
Sinop- Sinuva (Palaic/Paphlagonian- Luvian)
 
etc.
 
And that "eis stan thing" doesn't make any sense, and it is total non-sense. Turks had many relations with the Romans long before 1453 which you claim is the date when they saw the "roadsign".LOL Gokturks for example, sent massingers to Istanbul in the early 6th century, Avars, Oguz Turks settled in Byzantine regions in 8th and 9th centuries. Do you think they suddenly ended up with renaming the ciy according to a wooden roadsign when they were on the way to conquer?Big smile 
 
The truth is, originally Turkish names don't begin with "s", that's why we call "Stanbul" as "Istanbul", Spain as "Ispanya" or Scotland as "Iskochya". Do you believe we also renamed these countres on the way to Vienna, according to a signboard?LOL
 
 


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Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.


Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 07:41

Nice try! Ermm



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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: violentjack
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 07:48
City was called Islambull and not Istanbul
Many called it Konstantinople untill 1924 and Attaturk reforms

Later it was changed from Islambul to Istanbul




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Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite


Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 09:59
Originally posted by Bashibozuk

 
And that "eis stan thing" doesn't make any sense, and it is total non-sense. Turks had many relations with the Romans long before 1453 which you claim is the date when they saw the "roadsign".LOL Gokturks for example, sent massingers to Istanbul in the early 6th century, Avars, Oguz Turks settled in Byzantine regions in 8th and 9th centuries. Do you think they suddenly ended up with renaming the ciy according to a wooden roadsign when they were on the way to conquer?Big smile 
 
The truth is, originally Turkish names don't begin with "s", that's why we call "Stanbul" as "Istanbul", Spain as "Ispanya" or Scotland as "Iskochya". Do you believe we also renamed these countres on the way to Vienna, according to a signboard?LOL 
 
i think so too, Constantinople's name is known by turks for hunderds of years before they conquer it, it makes no sense that they called it mistakenly by simply hearing "eis stan pole',
 
so as Cyrus mentioned Istanbul was called Istanah, as far as i know turkish rulers of Egypt call it Istanah.
 
and the words Istan  like PakIstan and bul as in Kabul makes more sense than the Greek theory.
 


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Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 11:20
@Bashibozuk

What's your etymological theory for "Istanbul" then?

Was it an ancient Thracian city maybe named similar?LOL


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Posted By: Bashibozuk
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 13:51
No, actually the theory of Cyrus makes much more sense than a roadsign theory of a wacko. So the name of the city is proably loaned, or derived from Persian.

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Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.


Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 17:37
In English it makes sense (Istanbul - pakISTAn and kaBUL) but, in Persian, does the word for Pakistan end in ISTAN and word Kabul end in BUL?
    

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Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 19:10

The eastern world (Arabs, Persians) knew this name from the contact with the Byzantines that's how Turks learned it too before the conquest.



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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 04:57
Originally posted by violentjack

City was called Islambull and not Istanbul
Many called it Konstantinople untill 1924 and Attaturk reforms

Later it was changed from Islambul to Istanbul
 
This is correct, the city was known as "Islambul" and its official name was "Konstantaniyye" a corrupt form of the Greek name for the city.
 
Many have simply ignored Violent Jack's reply simply because it would damage both the Greek and Persian theories.
 
Islambul in Turkish is two words put together: "Islam" and "bul"=eng."find". Thus an English translation would be "Find Islam".
 
Whether true or not it goes to show how easy it is to pick out words, make them sound like a certain language and claim the part of the glory of Istanbul as Greek/Persian.
 
Although one must add that in Cyrus's initial post he even admits to the fact of it being called "Islambul" and is also in the page that he uploaded.
For all those unfamiliar with the Arabic script i have circuled the name "Islambul"


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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 05:02
Islambul was only  one  name of istanbul.But how can  you find islam at istanbul  before 1453.


Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 05:25
Originally posted by OSMANLI

Whether true or not it goes to show how easy it is to pick out words, make them sound like a certain language and claim the part of the glory of Istanbul as Greek/Persian.
 
Don't get paniced... this Istanbul is your creation don't worry... It has nothing to do with the name...


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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 11:00
Originally posted by Mortaza

Islambul was only  one  name of istanbul.But how can  you find islam at istanbul  before 1453.
 
True, the name Istanbul/Islambul was a name used under Turkish rule.
 
The only way to trully find the truth is by finding pre-1453 Ottoman/Turkic  sources showing the name of the city. But even then one must take into account whether it is used in a formal or informal way eg. Ottoman formal: Konstantaniyye, informal; istanbul.


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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 14:09
And almost all of those Pontian cities with the colony cities in coastal regions of Aegean were either renamed by Greeks or corruption of native names.
 
There were no major cities of another civilization in the Western coast of Asia Minor.That's why it was inhabited by Ancient Hellens in a very short period of time and without great difficulty.The same for the Pontian coast.There were major cities deep in the mainland of Asia Minor,such as Hattusa ,Tuvanuva,Arrina,Kanes etc ,but not in the coast.With the exception of the kingdom of Troy,if we accept that it was in the area near Ellispontos.
 
The truth is, originally Turkish names don't begin with "s", that's why we call "Stanbul" as "Istanbul", Spain as "Ispanya" or Scotland as "Iskochya".
 
In fact Scotland can be related to the Hellenic word Scotos ,meaning darkness,due to the fact that in Scotland the sun does not come up frequently.
 
makes more sense than the Greek theory.
 
Concerning the name,what we are talking about here is  4 different languages:Medieval Hellenic,Turkish,Persian,Arabic.There are many names for Constantinople in Hellenic,let alone the other languages.But nobody can deny the fact that the word Istanbul has a great similarity with the Hellenic  phrase "is tin Poli".


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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:03
Well,as it was said before how could a city that was known for 800 years to the Muslims,without being Muslim to be called "Full of Islam" or "find islam" or other funny things?

"Islambul" is obviously degenerated "Istanbul".
In every serious etymological dictionary u will find that this is a folk's etymology ,after 16th century.

What if both of the names of the City are Greek??Confused
Accept it or not this City was there for 2000 years- with greek culture- before the conquest by the Turks.

It s like the recent catalogue of monuments of the City,that the mayor offered to the children of elementary schools ,in order to learn about the monuments of Istanbul.
Agia Sophia was not included!!

What are these people afraid of?Confused
They should be happy for the rich culture of the City,both before and after 1453...


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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:08
It s like the recent catalogue of monuments of the City,that the mayor offered to the children of elementary schools ,in order to learn about the monuments of Istanbul.
Agia Sophia was not included!!
How do you know this? Infact I am greek, I wont cry for this. If turks dont care Agia Sophia, you may have some chance to convert it back to Church. If Turks respect and know It well, They force goverment for converting it back to Mosque.


Posted By: Bashibozuk
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:13
Gokturks had contact, trade and alliance with the Roman Empire. They've sent their diplomats in the 6th century, actually they united against the Sassanid Persians, but altough the Gokturks attacked them in Khwarezm (Turkmenistan), Romans betrayed them in some sense by staying neutral.
 
There were no major cities of another civilization in the Western coast of Asia Minor.That's why it was inhabited by Ancient Hellens in a very short period of time and without great difficulty
 
What about Milluvanda, Abassa, Assos, Halikarnassos etc.?
 
The same for the Pontian coast
 
No, actually many Pontian cities who are said to have "Greek" names in origin, are derived or corrupted froms of Laz. For example "Rize"/ Rhizaion, means "the land where soldiers gather", or a fort, in Laz. "Trabizond" is also a corruption of the name of the Laz tribe, Tibarene, and another tribe Matza gave the name of the southern city, "Machka".
 
Sinope is Pahplagonian/Luvian, or originally, Pauwa Lacawonian, Palaic people's language, related with Hittite and Kashka. You said your ancestry was partly from ancient Pontian region, before trying to prove your pure Greek descendence, let's focus on your Caucasian inheritence...
 
So indeed, when Acheans arrived, or Miletans arrived, or Oghuz arrived, they mostly just corrupted the original name or derived similar names, based on real names of cities, and regions. Or when the locals got assimilated, they just changed their tongue and the name became meaningless for them....


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Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.


Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:28
@ Mortaza

I really dont have any agony about converting Agia Sophia to a church (or a mosque) !
I just wish that such monuments -which are cultural heritage of the whole planet-would be respected,and not "erased" by stupid nationalism.

@ Bashibozuk

Do u have "the Great para-Etymological Dictionary" in your Library?Smile

Riza =the lands were soldiers gather?
 Too small name ,too big meaning!Big smile

In fact "Riza" in greek means "root",used also for the  foot of the mountains.

Tibarene ?? In greek its not "Trabizond",its "Trapezous".
Do you know "trapezium" ? Geometry ?Smile

PS:i am sure you have a theory about "Anadolu".
It s obviously ,not derived from greek "Anatoli"=East,
but fro man ancient Hittite word.LOL



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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:40
I just wish that such monuments -which are cultural heritage of the whole planet-would be respected,and not "erased" by stupid nationalism.
 
 
It wont be "erased". It is still making a lot money.


Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:45
Yes..ready to collapse,
fashion shows inside it,..
but money is money.
Trillions of turkish Lira!


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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:47
There is not any fashion show inside of it, and I dont think It will colapse without an earthquake.
 
By the way, new turkish lirasSmile


Posted By: Bashibozuk
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 16:07
Do u have "the Great para-Etymological Dictionary" in your Library?
 
No, but some sources which are useful when web is full of every kinds of propoganda. Have you ever heard of William Edward David Allen?
 
Riza =the lands were soldiers gather?
 
Did you fail your primary school? I hope you can read. I said "renamed" according to the original name. Will you accept the fact that there lived some Thracians before Hadrian rebuilt a city for them, or there lived some Armenians in Karin before Theodosius renamed the city? Same for Rize. It never meant brass, it was just a remaning procedure.
 
And I thought you called the city Trebizond, or Τραπεζούντα in Greek. Does it actually matter?

It s obviously ,not derived from greek "Anatoli"=East,
but fro man ancient Hittite word.LOL

Nope, I don't have one yet, but when I find one (I probably will, since Greek colonisers didn't tend to derive any original names.), I'll try to enlighten you all.
 
And I also have a theory for the Balkans, common with most sensible scholars, I guess the name is Turkish, don't you agree with us? Of course, it's Dorian, or Aeolian, for you, right?Smile
 


-------------
Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.


Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 16:16
Originally posted by Bashibozuk

Nope, I don't have one yet, but when I find one (I probably will, since Greek colonisers didn't tend to derive any original names.), I'll try to enlighten you all.


I m looking forward for enlightment ...or fun...-both are niceBig smile

(I m pretty sure you will find something like :
Anadolu="the place where Greek culture and past is unknown and when its known we try to erase it."Tongue )



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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 18:27

First of all what we need to understand is that Ancient Hellens used Hellenified versions of foreign toponyms,cities,names,sometimes totally different ,sometimes not.For example ,the name Darios for the Persian dara.The Hellenic word Hettaios,or in english Hittite, for the Hebrew Heth.

 During the period of the Old kingdom  ,the Hittites were mainly focusing their military operations in   Northern Mesopotamia due to existence of significantly powerfull enemies such as the Hurrites ,and the Giamads in Syria.There were Hittitian colonies in Syria and maybe in Palestine ,but not in Western Asia Minor.If again we accept the fact that Troy was located near the Straits of Hellispontos,the only organized State west of Hattusa and of the Hittitian State was the kingdom of Troy,as described in the Homer's Illiad and Odyssey.The only shore that the Hittites reached was the Southern,an area where Hellens did not found any colonies,with the domination over Arzava.During the New Kingdom,a period of political instability and foreing invasions ,the only serious Western threat was from Arzava,which was in the mainland of Asia Minor.The whole epicenter of politics and strategic campaings was the area of Syria,Northren Mesopotamia and Taurus mountains,due to the fact that all possible enemies were in that specific area ,such as the Egyptians ,the Assyrians,the Mitanni etc.The Ahigiava ,a Western power mentioned in scripts since the reign of Supiluliumas (1375 B.C),were in the fact the Ahaioi ,Hellens from the Hellenic mainland who had founded colonies in the Western shore of Asia Minor.So,we see Hittitian presence in the Southern  shore of Asia Minor,e.g the city of Tarsa(later Tarsos) and no Ahigiavan colonies,colonies of the Ahaioi while there were no major cities in the Western shores,where the Ahigiavan presence,again the presence of the Ahaioi, was strong.

Before the Hittites,the Luvians had under their influence and control the area from Kizuvatna in the East (North of Tarsos) to Luka and a part of  Karia in the West.But still,they had not reach the shores of Western Asia Minor.

The Phrygians were the only ones from the people of the "Aegean Immigration",which "officialy" ended the rule of the Hittites in the region, who managed to found a form of State.The Phrygian State had as it's Western border the river Maiandrus,not the shores of Western Asia Minor.The only ones that managed to really reach the shores were the Lydians.But the Hellenic presence in the area had already been known and later established since the Ahigiava.In fact some of the colonies were founded in the last years of the Mycenean Era.

So the only Western State which ruled in the shores,was the kingdom of Troy ,which was destroyed by the Ahaioi(Ahigiava).

As for the names,the Hellens ,as mentioned above ,used Hellenified versions for foreign names ,e.g Lykia for the Luka,Asia for the Asuva.The name Ahigiava could actually come from the Hellenic Ahaioi and not the other way around.And that's all.



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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 02:59
Originally posted by Digenis

It s like the recent catalogue of monuments of the City,that the mayor offered to the children of elementary schools ,in order to learn about the monuments of Istanbul.Agia Sophia was not included!!What are these people afraid of?

But Agia Sophia was added to that catalogue in the end.

I don't think that event has anything to do with Greeks.

It seems the mayor, who was elected through an Islamist party, is not fond of museums.
    

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Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 07:05
Wasn't the same person who started these funny celebrations(so many faked moustaches!Big smile) for the conquest of the city in 29th May?



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Posted By: Ellin
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 09:35
No, actually many Pontian cities who are said to have "Greek" names in origin, are derived or corrupted froms of Laz. For example "Rize"/ Rhizaion, means "the land where soldiers gather", or a fort, in Laz. "Trabizond" is also a corruption of the name of the Laz tribe, Tibarene, and another tribe Matza gave the name of the southern city, "Machka".

hmmm.. interesting.. never heard of that one before...
the most common etymological explanation i keep coming across is as follows.

Trabzon took it's Greek name of Trapezous from the shape of it's flat-topped acropolis (Greek "trapeza" table).  According to Xenophon (5th century BC), it was founded perhaps as early as the 8th century BC by settlers of the Greek colony of Sinope and it soon developed into a flourishing city.
source: http://www.planetware.com/turkey/trabzon-tr-tr-tr.htm



Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 18:34
Pontic cities are all decended from Greek names because they are decended from Alexander's empire (I think)
 
Istanbul is a corruption of Islambul which was a nickname adopted by the Ottomans and an early name for the city


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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 05:20
I don't know why some Greeks have such a problem, there traces in Anatolia are via Colonising already existing civillisations and invasion. The fact is, they weren't very good at being tolerant and granting rights and there was a huge justice and social inequality.
 
In the end they made way for new invaders, so really its pointless being upset.
 
The Turks who entered treated the locals better, gave them a sense of belonging and a way to rise up against the opperssive Byzantine rule of the era.
 
Istanbul is a corruption of Islambol that's correct, making the city one of the great centre's of Muslims was on Fatih the Conquerors mind.


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      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine



Posted By: Ellin
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 06:22
Originally posted by mamikon


The theory is as follows:

Greeks (as well as Armenians) usually referred to "Constantinoupolis" as "Polis".

"into the city", in Greek translates into "is tin Polin", which to the ears of Turks may have been similar to "is tan bulis" or "Istanbul".


This is how i have known the name Istanbul to have eventuated.  Which most sources seem to ascertain/confirm.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


As I mentioned several times Istanbul is a very Persian word which means exactly "Land Bridge", I hope you at least know that Afghanistan means "Land of Afghans" and its capital Kabul means "Mountain Bridge".


This sounds kinda feasible, ie that they "may" have borrowed from the Persian language, considering an estimated 60-65% of the words in Turkish were of foreign origin (predominately Arabic and Persian (source = lexicorient.com/e.o/turkish.htm)) but it doesn't stick, because the Turkish language was being revamped, ie cleansed and purged of it's foreign words, round about the same time the city was officially named Istanbul.  They obviously opted to go with the bastardised/corrupted version of the greek term, "eis tin poli", because of familiarity.

Originally posted by bg_turk

Most of the Turks do not care about the name of the city or they think it is a Turkish name.


what do they think it means in Turkish?
If the Turks can't come up with an etymology of the word, then they can't claim ownership, i would've thought.

Originally posted by erkut

too many city names in Anatolia(ewen the name of anatolia) greek.
but itsnt a big deal. ewen the names were chineese it wouldnt change the owners of the cities.


hehe.. well true to a point, but the major concern here is plagiarism.

Originally posted by Bulldog

I don't know why some Greeks have such a problem, there traces in Anatolia are via Colonising already existing civillisations and invasion. The fact is, they weren't very good at being tolerant and granting rights and there was a huge justice and social inequality.


wow.. is that why Byzantium was the longest surviving empire ever to have existed??
If that was the case, it would've crumbled well before the Mongols invaded.


Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 07:06
Originally posted by Bulldog

I don't know why some Greeks have such a problem, there traces in Anatolia are via Colonising already existing civillisations and invasion. The fact is, they weren't very good at being tolerant and granting rights and there was a huge justice and social inequality.
 
In the end they made way for new invaders, so really its pointless being upset.
 
The Turks who entered treated the locals better, gave them a sense of belonging and a way to rise up against the opperssive Byzantine rule of the era.
 
Istanbul is a corruption of Islambol that's correct, making the city one of the great centre's of Muslims was on Fatih the Conquerors mind.
 
Clap couldn't have said it better


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 07:09
Elinn
what do they think it means in Turkish?
If the Turks can't come up with an etymology of the word, then they can't claim ownership, i would've thought.
 
They have, "Islambol", which is a natural and logical conclusion.
 
Mehmed the Conqueror was a religous man, he was spurred on to make the city a centre for Muslims and from Haddiths saying one day Constantinople would be conquered by Muslims.
 
Islambol = City with abundance of Islam, city of lots of Islam.
 
Its far more logical than the other theories which cannot be substantiated or objectively proven.
 
The Turks already new the name of the city, from the Arabs, "Konstantinniye" you think they invaded a city and didn't even know the name or what to call it, then as they marched in Mehmed though damn what shall I call the city then a few Greek peasents walking by were saying "Is Tin Polin" so Mehmed that's it, that's the name and that's what were gonna call it, "Into the City" Confused  its such a ludacris theory. Mehmed II spoke 6 languages, its likely he knew Greek and there were Greek renegades in the army. You think they would choose such a ridiculous name for a city.
 
too many city names in Anatolia(ewen the name of anatolia) greek.
 
Anatolia is not a Greek word.
 
Which cities? most are Hellenized verions of earlier names.
 
 
Elinn
wow.. is that why Byzantium was the longest surviving empire ever to have existed??
 
That's romantic thinking, unless your referring to the Continuation from the Western Roman Empire in which case its still not true.
 
 
If that was the case, it would've crumbled well before the Mongols invaded.
 
It did, after the loss of Malazkirit it was all over for the Byzantiums then after the Battle of Myriokephalon it was well and truly over. Then the Christian brothers visit to Contantinople really sealed its fate for good.

 


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      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine



Posted By: Ellin
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 08:50
Originally posted by Bulldog

Mehmed the Conqueror was a religous man, he was spurred on to make the city a centre for Muslims and from Haddiths saying one day Constantinople would be conquered by Muslims.
 
Islambol = City with abundance of Islam, city of lots of Islam.
 
Its far more logical than the other theories which cannot be substantiated or objectively proven.


ok so then why the deviation from what seems to have been a purely Turkic word ie "Islambol" and having such religious significance also,
to Istanbul, where "Islam" is no longer evident in the name?


Originally posted by Bulldog


Anatolia is not a Greek word.


I guess you're going to tell me that that's Turkish as well!
Even based on the phonetics of the word, you don't have a case.
Anatolia (ancient name of Asia Minor) is the latin form of the Greek
original, Anatole (pron. A-na-to-li) meaning "the east", originally "sunrise" (which happens in the east obviously), lit. "a rising above (the horizon)," from anatellein "to rise," from ana "up" + tellein "to accomplish, perform."

A lot of Greek women have this name also..
and thanks to our 'age old' naming tradition that dates back to antiquity, this can also serve as a testament to it's ethnological roots.


 


Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 10:00
Elinn
wow.. is that why Byzantium was the longest surviving empire ever to have existed??
 
I guess if you count the begining of the Rome in around 700 BC to the fall of constantinople in 1453, that must be around 2'700 years old! Technically, the Byzantine empire was an offshot of the Roman empire. Many Byzantines were proud of their heritage and some powerful Byzantine emperors like Justinian attempted to re-conquer Rome! So that does mean, i suppose that it is!


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Posted By: R_AK47
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 12:27
Originally posted by Bulldog

Elinn
what do they think it means in Turkish?
If the Turks can't come up with an etymology of the word, then they can't claim ownership, i would've thought.
 
They have, "Islambol", which is a natural and logical conclusion.
 
Mehmed the Conqueror was a religous man, he was spurred on to make the city a centre for Muslims and from Haddiths saying one day Constantinople would be conquered by Muslims.
 
Islambol = City with abundance of Islam, city of lots of Islam.
 
Its far more logical than the other theories which cannot be substantiated or objectively proven.
 
The Turks already new the name of the city, from the Arabs, "Konstantinniye" you think they invaded a city and didn't even know the name or what to call it, then as they marched in Mehmed though damn what shall I call the city then a few Greek peasents walking by were saying "Is Tin Polin" so Mehmed that's it, that's the name and that's what were gonna call it, "Into the City" Confused  its such a ludacris theory. Mehmed II spoke 6 languages, its likely he knew Greek and there were Greek renegades in the army. You think they would choose such a ridiculous name for a city.
 
 
More of this nonsense about "Islambol".  The name Istanbul has nothing to do with Islambol.  If the Turks were so concerned about putting the word islam within the name of the city, then why do they call it Istanbul today and not Islambol.  The origins of the word Istanbul are Greek.  It simply means "the city."  It has nothing to do with islam.


Posted By: Urungu Han
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 12:31
Arabs were saying "Dersaadet"
 
And the Seljuks said "Konstantiniyye"
 
But to Ottomans used "İslambul",it means the place of divine rights and İslam.


Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 16:36
Istanbul must have been called thousands of names- think of the strategic and political significance it has played throughout its 4000 year history!

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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 18:13
Originally posted by R_AK47

The origins of the word Istanbul are Greek.  It simply means "the city."

No, according to the Greek theory it is supposed to mean "to the city". But the Greek theory seems as good a guess as any, and Islambol is in my opinion more plausible.


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http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com


Posted By: Neoptolemos
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 18:21
Originally posted by Bulldog

Elinn
what do they think it means in Turkish?
If the Turks can't come up with an etymology of the word, then they can't claim ownership, i would've thought.
 
They have, "Islambol", which is a natural and logical conclusion.
"They" as we say "we"? lol
 
Islambol = City with abundance of Islam, city of lots of Islam.
I don't know much about Turkish linguistics, so I have two questions for you (or anybody else who supports this theory):
How did "Islam" become "Istan", particularly how did "l" become "t"?
Does "bol" mean "city" or sth like this?

 
Anatolia is not a Greek word.

Says the wise pitbull... oh, sorry, I meant bulldog LOL


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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 20:43
The city was known as Islambol, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise how logical it is for it to have such a name.

Why was it changed?

Umm, there was a revolution, the Ottoman Establishment overthrown, the old capitol was moved and to weaken its power and get away from it being the centre of the Capiphate aswell as to secularise, the name Istanbul was adopted.

Common, even the most die hard Greek nationalists must laugh at the pathetic excuse for it being, "In the City" , yeah Mehmed heard some Greek peasents say IN TO THE CITY and stupid Mehmed said yeah that's it, I'll name it IN THE CITY

Mehmed the Conquerer was a highly educated very intellegent man and brilliant strategist, who knew six languages.

Why should the word "CITY" be in the actual name of a city, how ridiculous. London is London, not Londoncity, Rome is Rome, Paris is Paris.

I think certain Greeks should have a good listen to this song.


Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
"Istanbul" 1953


Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul


Lets give the "Four Lads" a round of applause, they break down the realities damn well


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      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine



Posted By: Neoptolemos
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 21:00
Originally posted by Bulldog

The city was known as Islambol, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise how logical it is for it to have such a name.
Well, if you say so, I guess I have to agree. Hell, on all of your posts here on AE you have proven how knowledgeable you are in every thread you partcipate.

Why should the word "CITY" be in the actual name of a city, how ridiculous. London is London, not Londoncity, Rome is Rome, Paris is Paris.
Because Constantinople was THE CITY.
(London is not Londoncity, but Indianapolis is Indianapolis. In case you don't know, polis means city. Tell them that they have a ridiculous name for their city lol)



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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 21:19
Constantine's City but it was no longer a Roman City once the Ottomans walked in was it, it became the abode of Islam     

Its also been called Islambol, Kushta, Gosdantnubolis, Tsarigrad, Rumiyya al-kubra, New Jerusalem, the Eye of the World, the Refuge of the Universe, the Gate of Happiness, Costa, Micklegard........ and so on.

Pick your favourite, it really doesn't matter. Out of them all, Islambol was most relevant as the cities new Muslim rulers and inhabitants were obviously adheres of Islam. Islambol --> Istanbul due to the abolishment of the Caliphate and to distance from the old Theocratic rule to the new secular.

Sorry but its far more viable than the story about a Mehmed over-hearing a few old guys say IN TO THE CITY IN TO THE CITY

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way


Old Istanbul was once called Constantinople or Neu Roma
Why they changed it I CAN say
People just like it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks



Good nite

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      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine



Posted By: Neoptolemos
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 21:24
Islambol - a bol of lots of Islam - case closed.

good nait and sweet drims


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Posted By: Ellin
Date Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 05:08
Originally posted by Bulldog


Islambol = City with abundance of Islam, city of lots of Islam


see.. even that's "Greek". Wink

bol = mpoliko (pron. bo-li-ko) which means = plentiful

bahahah..... you guyz can't think of anything original LOL Tongue

 


Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 07:02
1. abundant. plentiful. generous. plenty. full. rich. wealthy. loose. hefty. wide. baggy. abounding. affluent. ample. bounteous. bountiful. copious. effusive. exuberant. fecund. flush. handsome. hearty. lavish. liberal. lush. luxuriant. opulent. plenteo.
 
seslisozluk
 
bol : wide, loose; ample;
 
http://www.hazar.com/ - http://www.hazar.com/
 
bol : abundant
bol : ample
bol : baggy
bol : copious
bol : full
bol : hearty
bol : large
bol : lavish
bol : lush
bol : luxuriant
bol : opulent
bol : plenteous
 
etc etc
http://www.langtolang.com/?selectMenuLang=1&txtLang=bol&selectFrom=English&selectTo=Turkish&selectMenuLang=1 - http://www.langtolang.com/?selectMenuLang=1&txtLang=bol&selectFrom=English&selectTo=Turkish&selectMenuLang=1
 
 
Elinn
bahahah.....
 
A vent of extremem frustration LOL
 
You guys can't accept the realities...
 
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way


Old Istanbul was once called Constantinople or Neu Roma
Why they changed it I CAN say
People just like it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks
 
Have a nice day in Islambol, in Islambul where you can "find Islam", or Tsarigrad, or  New Jerusalem or  the Eye of the World or how about Costa and if your a Saxon then Micklegard.
 
Just accept whose city it is today and whose it always will be, have a nice day Big smile
 


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      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine



Posted By: Ellin
Date Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 07:34
Originally posted by Bulldog

Just accept whose city it is today and whose it always will be


tehehe... so you think!

Kosmas the Aitolian doesn't seem to think so! Wink
bit of an enigma for you.


Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 09:23
Didn't the Vagarian Guard have a special name for it? You know, the Byzantine Emperor's Viking Bodyguard.

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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 10:02
I think it was "Micklegard"

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      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine



Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 16:32
Ah- Ok. Evidently i need to read posts more! :D

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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 10:56
Therefore the fact is that Turks couldn't spell Islambol so they changed it to Istanbul, yes?

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Posted By: perikles
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 09:36
Istanbul means to the city in greek "ïs tin poli" as it was said before.
KOnstantinoupoli is a greek city (was actually) and the turkish has the tedency to change everything and claim their owner hip. it is not new.
the history confirms the above opinion. thats true whtaever our "friends" from turkey or antigreeks saiy


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Samos national guard.

260 days left.


Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 09:54
Too many Turkish cities names originaly not Turkish.
For ex.
Konya ------İkonium
İstanbul ----İstinpol
But itsnt important those are turkish cities now
By the way Anatoli  means east in Greek.


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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 10:37
the history confirms the above opinion.
how can history confirm this?


Posted By: The Hidden Face
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 13:39
Hi folks. Let's take a look at Ottoman Empire Coins.
 
Firstly, The Conqueror's coins.
 
 
 
 
As you can see above, the name was Konstantiniye, not Islambol, nor Istanbul.
 
The first appearance of the word Islambol on Ottoman coins was in 1703, the Ahmed III era.
 
http://osmanliparalari.com/23-3ahmet-1115/23-1115-foto/23-Esrefi-1115-islambol.jpg -
 
 
The word Islambol was also used by Mahmud I, Osman III, Mustafa III and finally Selim III.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
So, in 1703 the word Islambol was started to use by Ahmed III, and continued until 1789, the end of Selim III rules.
 
......
 
After Selim III, the word Konstantiniye was started to use by Mustafa IV again. (1807)
 
 
 
......
 
 
And until 1920, the name of city remained as Konstantiniye.
 
Sultan Resad (1918):
 
 
 
..........
 
And, here is my humble opinions on the origin theories.
 
1) Islambol > Istanbul.
 
I think, it's just imposible that the word Islam has been deformed.
 
2) Is Tin Poli > Istanbul.
 
The word "Poli" equals the word "bolu" in Turkish, without any exception. It would have been Istanbolu, or rather Istinbolu, If it had been derived from "Is Tin Poli".
 
3) Persian Istan-bul > Istanbul.
 
I think, this is the most logical possibility in terms of derivation.
 
 


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Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 14:25
@Hidden face:
What does Istan-bol mean in Persian?
Is it mentioned in persian sources before 1071?

I think we should search for how did Persians and Arabs call the City until the 11th century.
For me it would be very probable the Turks to adopt the name from them (as they did with thousands of words)

@Bulldog:
thnx-u always make me smile when i read your postsSmile
(sometimes even laugh)Approve



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Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 19:24
Originally posted by Digenis

@Hidden face:
What does Istan-bol mean in Persian?
Is it mentioned in persian sources before 1071?

I think we should search for how did Persians and Arabs call the City until the 11th century.
For me it would be very probable the Turks to adopt the name from them (as they did with thousands of words)

@Bulldog:
thnx-u always make me smile when i read your postsSmile
(sometimes even laugh)Approve

İstaan=land  Bol=Bridge

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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 01:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlPoaJjOzEg&mode=related&search=">
It is Istanbul, and not Constantinople!


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http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com


Posted By: perikles
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 09:32

1) the city were there ages before persian or seltzuk or romans came there. Was a Greek colony. City's first name was Byzantium. Later the romans (wich culture was completely Greek) after their conquer the entire region decides that that city was the perfect spot for their new capital. So The emperor Konstantinos make a new citi next to Bizantium and called her Constantinoupoli. Later when Ottomans conquer the Byzantium (Actually whats left from the crusaders the City and some parts of Greece) they changed citis name. And is called Istanbul.

So we can conclude that Islambol it can not be truth because persians didn't know the city. Seconldy u think is more logic from islambol (which means something to islam) become Istanbul or the name come from Is-tin-poli (in greek means to the city) the conclusions are all yours.
2) This is history facts. If you don't know were to search do not hesitate to send you articles.
 
For you is Istanbul for me is Constantinoupoli. I canot see the problem.
 
regards


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Samos national guard.

260 days left.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 14:45
ORGINALITY İSTANBUL--->İSLAMBOL THAT IS TO SAY VERY ISLAMIC CITY RELIGIOUS..FOR ME BECAUSE I AM TURK ;)


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Posted By: R_AK47
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 20:35
Originally posted by bg_turk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlPoaJjOzEg&mode=related&search= -
It is Istanbul, and not Constantinople!
 
No, it is Constantinople.  Even the Ottomans called it Constantinople until the fall of the Ottoman Empire.


Posted By: perikles
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 10:57
Originally posted by KANSU44

ORGINALITY İSTANBUL--->İSLAMBOL THAT IS TO SAY VERY ISLAMIC CITY RELIGIOUS..FOR ME BECAUSE I AM TURK ;)
 
Islmabol. A bol full of islam?
A plate full of islam. Just joking. Make the etimology  of the word.
How Islambol became Istanbul. I can not to understand it.


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Samos national guard.

260 days left.


Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:00
Originally posted by bg_turk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlPoaJjOzEg&mode=related&search=">
It is Istanbul, and not Constantinople!
 
Love the clip.
Must be a true depiction of life in the Ottoman Empire.


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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">


Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 07:15
Originally posted by perikles

1) the city were there ages before persian or seltzuk or romans came there. Was a Greek colony.

There was a settlement before Greeks in the region as well. That's why you are calling it as "Greek colony".
 
Secondly, Constantinople was rebuilt as a Roman city. Constantine was a Roman Emperor, not Greek.
 
Thirdly, Roman culture was not completely Greek. Furthermore you have to define what Greek culture was? Was it unique? Alien from the region? Make a research on for example Phonecian influences on Greek culture? Will it mean that Athens was a Phonecian city or Greeks were culturally Phonecian?
 
Originally posted by perikles

So we can conclude that Islambol it can not be truth because persians didn't know the city.

How do you know that they do not know the city? I am sure that they know the city if you consider the political relations between Romans and Sasanids.
 
Secondly, Darius passed the Bosphorus to go over Sctyhians. In Heredotus, it says that he built a bridge over it to pass to Europe. It seems very difficult to me. But it is sure that all of these story fits very well that Istanbul means landbridge in ancient Persian and the meaning of the city comes from this root.
 
Islambol explanation is simply nonsense. Greek explanation is worth to take into account. And you should take into account the explation of Persian version about the name Istanbul too.    
 


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 07:26
Originally posted by perikles

Originally posted by KANSU44

ORGINALITY İSTANBUL--->İSLAMBOL THAT IS TO SAY VERY ISLAMIC CITY RELIGIOUS..FOR ME BECAUSE I AM TURK ;)
 
Islmabol. A bol full of islam?
A plate full of islam. Just joking. Make the etimology  of the word.
How Islambol became Istanbul. I can not to understand it.
 
Name "Istanbul" didn't come out of "Islambol"...It came from how Turks call it before conquest..Istinpolin..
 
Islambol is a name used to refer Istanbul's status as the capital of Islamic world for long centuries.


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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: R_AK47
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 20:09
Originally posted by perikles

 
Islmabol. A bol full of islam?
A plate full of islam.
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Posted By: perikles
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 10:21
You have right. Constantine was a Roman emperor.
When we say ancient greek culture (There is no modern culture :( )
has the basic elements same for all the cities. They spoke the same language, the have the same alphabet, same religion, same customs. The courage was a basic element. After all i am sure you know that there was a saying in all the ancient Greece. πας μη Έλλην Βάρβαρος. This means whoever is not a Greek is a barbarian.
 
It is time the HUGE LIE that Greeks influeced by phoinicians to stop. There are not valid proofs for that. Greek civilization was greater than phoinicians. They were traders nothing else. Do you know any list of artifacts or any arts, technology (Greeks had technology) or any other proof of cultre and civilization.
 
When Romans conquered Macedonian empire they were awed by greek civilization. The Roman empire was realy remarkable. It is true that they were took the greek civilization and evolve it. Let's see Kaligoulas, Nerwn this is civilization!!!. The Roman army and the legal system was very advance for their times.
 
Constantinoupoli first name was Byzantio. Constantinoupoli was built some miles southern from Byzantio. Byzantio was a Greek city. There were living greeks.  
 
The persian explanation is logic but only that.
 
regards


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Samos national guard.

260 days left.


Posted By: Jeru
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 09:06
Originally posted by Kapikulu

 
Name "Istanbul" didn't come out of "Islambol"...It came from how Turks call it before conquest..Istinpolin..
 
Islambol is a name used to refer Istanbul's status as the capital of Islamic world for long centuries.
so true
 
The modern Turkish name İstanbul comes from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language - Greek words εις την Πόλη ([is tin poli], in rapid speech [istimboli]) or στην Πόλη ([stimboli]), meaning "in the city" or "to the city.
 
Similar examples of modern Turkish town names derived from Greek in this fashion are izmit from İznikmit, from Greek http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomedia - Nikomedia , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0znik - İznik from Greek Nicaea ([iz nikea]), and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsun - Samsun (s'Amison which is "se + Amisos"). The epenthesis of the i in İzmit, etc. may result from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonotactics - phonotactic structure of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language - Turkish or from "εις".
 
Byzantium founded in 667 BC by Greek colonists from Megara and named after their king Byzas or Byzantas.
Byzantium is a latinization of the Greek name Byzantion.
 
it also had nicknames as Islambol,Kushta,Tsarigrad,New Jerusalem due to its status.
 
no matter how you call it, its still Turkish,and no matter who's it is the name is still derived from Greek.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 09:43
nowdays greeks also call constantinopolis as Poli.And when they travel to the city they say that they will go " is thn Poli"

istanbul is a greek phrase so i dont understand why we are keep talking about this!!

the city is greek so  it is normal that moggol  old turks  heard  many times the phrase "is tin poli"

we have also some turkish(or arabs)italians words that we borrow for other nations and change a little bit for example xairi




sorry for my english


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 10:08
Originally posted by Alparslan

[QUOTE=perikles]
 
Secondly, Constantinople was rebuilt as a Roman city. Constantine was a Roman Emperor, not Greek.
 
Thirdly, Roman culture was not completely Greek.
  
 



population of constantinopole was greek(for thousands years).their religion was at first the religion of ancient greek world and after greek orthodox.The culture was greek so what constantinopole was ?an american city ?indian?moggolian-turkish?
 





Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 10:35
Edited by Komnenos, as the post contained vile Anti-Turkish propaganda.





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Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 11:12
makedneos, change your attitude and show some respect you wont last long here with all of that baggage

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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by Leonidas

makedneos, change your attitude and show some respect you wont last long here with all of that baggage
 
 
You're right, he's gone already.


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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">


Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 15:54
i havent received a complete answer:

Can anyone present sources -Arabian and Persian-before 1071,in which "Islambol" is mentioned plz?


Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 17:55
i dont think "islambol" whas called before 1071 and i dont think it whas so before 1453, a discussion whas made several months ago on a Turkish tv, but dont remember much. 

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Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg -


Posted By: perikles
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 01:46
Originally posted by Jeru 
 
no matter how you call it, its still Turkish,and no matter who's it is the name is still derived from Greek.
[/QUOTE


 
 
You have right. Is a Turkish city with Greeks origin.
 
Byzantium was fonded by Greeks.
 
 
You have right. Is a Turkish city with Greeks origin.
 
Byzantium was fonded by Greeks. It was a greek colony. Colony means that people leave the mother city and go to another place and found a city. This city is a colony.
I cannot understand why so much quarrel for that. The turks came to the area thousands of years after Greeks. They found the city ready. They conquer the city. Ottomans, because Seltzouks was always Been defeated by Byzantins.
Anyway how it can be possible a city that conquared THOUSANDS of years after city's foundation to claim that the city name is Turkic. Istanbul is a a Greek name. If you don't like open a forum call it Turkish patriotism find supporters and talk about turkish superiority.
If i want to i can do the same. This is historical forum correct?
We cannot change history. I don't like many things my country done but i can;t do something else but accept it. Izmir was a Greek city (Smirni). How Izmir come up? What means. CAn someone please tell me
 


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Samos national guard.

260 days left.



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