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The Battle of Manzikert

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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Battle of Manzikert
    Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 13:20
Hello to you all
 
Sorry for bringing back this thread to life but I always wanted to write about Manzikert for a long time since it is one of my favourite battles and one of the most documented one in guess what language? Arabic of course since it was the official language of the Seljukes at that time and it was near Iraq where Alp Arslan set out to meet the Byzantines. All contemporary arab acounts agree that Arslan set out from Baghdad with 30 000 men but in Mosul he split his soldiers moving towards malazgirt with only 12000 men other than several thousand Kurdish and Arab auxillaries from the principalities surrounding Armenia. Arab sources say that Romanus set out initially with 100 000 men but reached the battle field with 70 000 men. He refused an audience with Arslan as well as a favourable truce saying he will answer from Ray (near present day Tehran) which meant only war. Any sensible man will know that Romanus would have accepted such an offer if he was outnumbered but since he outnumbered his enemy almost 4 to 1 and these were the only way between him and Baghdad it was natural for him to risk bttle which he lost. The Arab historians agree that a complete rout came about the Byzantines and that because of the largeness of the battle field lots of soldiers also fled.
 
I will not go into details of the battle since other people have already did but what I will say is this to those who claimed that this battle was not significant. the booty that came with this campaign included over 3000 wagons, thousands of slaves and a general depression in prices that went for years. 
If you want more just ask and I will give more details.
 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 16:16
The Byzantine numbers tend to vary dependant on historian. Anywhere form 60,000-100,000 seems plausible. Meanwhile, Alp Arslan was on a seige of Antioch. He had plans to go further south and carry his war against the Shi'a Buyids in Fatamid held territory. Once he caught wind of the Rumi invasion, however, he sent out his wife with vizier, Nizam al-Mulk to Azerbaijan for reinforcements. Meaning, he didn't have the capability at the time to offer battle without strengthening his numbers.
 
There were many unique factors that came into play prior to the battle. Let's start with the Byzantines. This state was at the peak of power not too far back with the reign of basileus Basil II- the Bulgar Slayer. However after his death in 1025 Byzantine intrigue and state corruption ushered in an imploding era. Being childless also meant that no true male heir was available. While Basil's surpluses dwindled, competing families of the Ducas and the Monomachus clans further drained state wealth. During this slide into instability some of the most revered Byzantine establishments fell into disarray. One of them being the thematic military recruit system. No longer were the citizen soldiers able to afford thier military obligations.
 
More distressing events were to unfold. The current baslieus Constantine IX spent much energy spiffing up his capital with valuable funds for arts and centers of learning instead of military upkeep. In order to raise even more revenue for his projects he disbanded the Armenian themes, which used to be valuable military strongholds. A most dangerous decision since that was about the same time that Oguz Turkmen raiders started to make their presence felt in the same area of the disbanded themes.
 
Important factors continue...
 
Religious schism between the Orthodox and Latin Churches further weakend the Byzantine prospects in carrying the war to the Seljuks. A filoque controversy over the Dual Procession of the Holy Ghost would divide the Christian world. The indecision led to the Great Schism of 1054 and it would assure that religious unity would be fleeting. In the future, when times would get tough and western support was needed, this fractious interplay would result in diminished military support.
 
One more item to our backdropt prior to Manzikert. The lineage of the Monomachus clans, following the death wish of ConstantineIX to safeguard it , would remain in jeopardy. The Ducas families asserted themselves as a political force yet their intrigue led to misfortune time and time again. On his death bed ConstantineIX ordered his wife Eudoxia not to marry, most likely to safeguard from non-familial control of the Capital. His widowed wife had other intentions. She fell for the warrior Romanus Diogenes. Thus he rose to prominance as Basileus after the wedding in 1068. This may have been a much needed shot in the arm to keep from even more dwindling borders. To the Ducas families it was a disgrace and they eventually aimed to take out their angst with full measure. There inevitable act of revenge would soon open pandora's box.
 
 
The reason I spent some time providing this immediate history of the Byzantines prior to the eventful Battle of Manikert is that much needed attention is directed at this fragile situation. A sensitivity that would have diasastrous effects.
 
To continue...
 
While the single minded and stubborn Diogenes needed to prove himself just to survive, the Ducas' had nothing but contempt. In 1070 he gathered as many military forces as he could muster. He would strong arm the disgruntled aristocracy and Church into forking over much need funds. Since the Byzantine military now relied on mercenaries, the cost was large. In order to stabilize his newly gained position Romanus needed to make a profound decision. A guarantee was needed back home while he took the fight against the Turks. He decided to take Andronicus Ducas with him to the battle. This meant that he had an insurance policy from any further palace intrigue while he was away from the capital.
 
Going on through to the point just before the battle was imminent, both the Seljuks and Byzantines had diplomats negotiating offers of peace. All that was needed was for the lands on the border to be respected. Alp Arslan knew that keeping his Turkmen raiders at bay would be a most difficult quest. For Romanus to accept the peace would mean ridicule and weaked sense of purpose. Afterall, he did not go all the way across anatolia just to sign a peace treaty and become fodder for accusations of cowardice. No, both men knew war would be the answer.
 
I won't go into much discussion of the battle or the poor decision making of Romanus other than he had an opportunity to hold his troops together. Instead he split them into hunting groups and expedition forces which met surprised disaster. The lost armies of Tarchaniotis and Roussel were not to be found. Of course much has been made of the numbers that took place in the ensueing battle. Whatever they may actually be, there were a couple more nails to be put in the Byzantine coffin. Romanus ordered a force under Bryennius to look for the rest of the Byzantine forces and call them back to camp. Instead this force was demolished by vigilant Turks, Bryennius somehow made it back.
 
The formations of both armies is an important measure and a telling tale to come. The Byzantines did the usual multiple ranks mostly of marching infantry and heavy cavalry thing. With one twist. Andronicus, the dreaded Ducas, would manage the large rear guard. The Seljuks did their normal steppe thing. They extended tips of riders to encompass the enemy and shower arrows from a distance. The bulk of the numbers being at the center of this concave. Of course for the Turks this formation provided many strategic opportunities. Battle hardened steppe tactics would prove to come in handy. They decided on the hail mary of game closers, the feigned retreat. The Byzantines marched on and intended to create havoc. Dust. August sun. Thirst. Multitudes of men.  Slow and dedicated. It took time. The Turks would retreat as Romanus bulled ahead. Yet hours of indecision led to nightfall. Diogenes ordered a retreat back to his camp. Turning about in a battle, unless done with efficient discipline, is bound to open opportunities for disgrace. This was the exact moment that Ducas used to attain his revenge. Alp Arslan gave the feigned Turks the order to attack now that the bait had been set. The center of the Seljuks lowered their bows and charged with handy swords, spears and maces, while the flanks continued to pepper with arrows. In the mean time the fate of the Byzantine forces would lay with Andronicus. He spread a rumor that the Romanus was captured or killed. Those payed troops for hire listened then had a revelation. Fight as mercenaires in a style that is now surely to be precarious at best or switch sides in the nic of time to those relatives who carry a style of fighting familiar with? Well, this mutiny alongside of the treachery from the withdrawing rear guard of Ducas sealed the Byzantines plight and the purple would lose the day.
 
This victory for Alp allowed his empire to grow. Seljuk arts and places of learning would mushroom. Islamic brotherhoods would move from Iran to Turkish anatolia consisting of Sufi liberalism. Most importantly, Turkish families and style of life would transfrom the landscape in their favor.
 
For Romanus, he was given quarter by Alp. Lost his eyes by Ducas back in Constantinople. Died exiled on an island in the marmara sea. The Byzantines did pull itself up with the leadership from the Komnenos families. The most important effect this family had was its request of troops from the west. After the Great Schism, a somewhat surprisingly favorable reply resulted in the massive invasion of Crusading forces against the Turks in Anatolia and muslims of the Holy lands.
 
 
 


Edited by Seko - 06-Oct-2007 at 16:33
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 19:27
Originally posted by Al Jassas

... one of the most documented one in guess what language? Arabic of course since it was the official language of the Seljukes at that time and it was near Iraq where Alp Arslan set out to meet the Byzantines.
 
Tell me what part of the Great Seljuk state used Arabic as the official language? The administration and imperial court? The artisans and civilians? The warriors? Being from Iran and composed of Turkmen and ethnicity I highly doubt that Arabic was the 'official' language. Turkish was the everyday language. Persian was the cultural and administrative language. Arabic the religious. Yes one can find Arabic officiers and a predomination of its language in the Arab areas of Bagdad and its environs along with what is now Northern Syria and Iraq. That hardly constitutes Arabic as being the official Seljuk lingua franca.
 
The main Arabic influence resulted from the Seljuk Sultan Tugrul Bey(g)'s dominance over the Abbasids. As their and the sunni muslims protector he was given the title of Sultan. The new Seljuk Sultan assumed most of the Caliph's authority, as well, to legislate and rule not directly relating to muslim law. The Caliph himself still held power over religious personal matters.
 
The Seljuks were now temporal rulers of the Islamic state. They administered this state with mostly Persian ministers. Even in areas predominantly inhabited by Arabs, the Seljuks brought with them their Persian influence which largely replaced the local Arabic. This was allowed since the Abbasids were a waning power. The Turks had already taken domination of the various Islamic military forces as mercenaries, slave troops or encroaching armies. In return the Arabs recognized the Seljuks as the champions of orthodoxy. Shi'as were rounded up and moved out of various offices. They were replaced by Sunni officials.
 
The Seljuks further penetrated primarily Arabic lands after 1055 and brought with them numerous hordes of Turkmen nomads. Many of these nomads left Iran and settled into present day Iraq. As a counterweight the Seljuks created their own mamluk system of slave levies from the Caucasus and from prisoners of wars. They were salaried soldiers. At the best of times this system of checks and balances was flimsy. The Turkmen moved wholsale into neighboring territories to graze their cattle. Iran, Azerbijan, and Iraq were their homes, and as soon as 1048, eastern anatolia as well. Once a foothold into anatolia was breached the rest they say is history.


Edited by Seko - 06-Oct-2007 at 20:41
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2007 at 01:04
It was used by the civil service, Diwans, Judiciary, education etc. Yes, the rulers, most of the subjects and nearly all soldiers did not know Arabic but what I know for certain is that the first to use Turkish were the Karamaoglu baylik circa 1280 and that the Rum seljuks used Arabic, till the late 12th century, and then Persian and most of the Bayliks used Arabic first and then Persian.
 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2007 at 03:37
I assume you mean matters of religious jurisprudence before the Karamanoglus. However, you would need to be more specific when you imply that education was Arabic outside of formal matters of religion. Exactly who were the Ulema educating and what tongue were the Umma predominantly speaking in the Seljuk domains? Keep in mind too that the capital city of the Great Seljuks was the Persian city of Esfahan in present day Iran.
 
The following are some links from a wiki article. Note the Persian predominant Persian influence in stately matters:
 
  1. ^ a b O.zgndenli, "Persian Manuscripts in Ottoman and Modern Turkish Libraries", Encyclopaedia Iranica, Online Edition, (LINK)
  2. ^ a b Encyclopaedia Britannica, "Seljuq", Online Edition, (LINK): "... Because the Turkish Seljuqs had no Islamic tradition or strong literary heritage of their own, they adopted the cultural language of their Persian instructors in Islam. Literary Persian thus spread to the whole of Iran, and the Arabic language disappeared in that country except in works of religious scholarship ..."
  3. ^ a b M. Ravandi, "The Seljuq court at Konya and the Persianisation of Anatolian Cities", in Mesogeios (Mediterranean Studies), vol. 25-6 (2005), pp. 157-69
 
From the start of the decline of the Abbasid caliphate in the late tenth century, and well before the fall of Baghdad in 1258, there was a decline in the use of classical Arabic outside formal or solemn occasions.
 
At that time literary works were mainly in Arabic and Persian. That was the tongue of religion and science in the middle east. However there is no sign that Arabic was used outside or those areas as formal state policy other than when reaching out to the state's Arab speakers. In summary Persian was the official language of the State. Turkish was the language of the nomads and Arabic and Persian were languages for the religious class and for higher education.
 
Last, a telling event of the newly heterodox Seljuks of Rum were the flourishing centers of cosmopolitan relgious practices. Moslems and Christians often prayed side by side in religious sanctuaries. The Seljuk state of Rum (Rome) had numerous Churches and Synagogs to go along with the abundant Mosques, caravanserais and madrassas. They were a tolerant regime. Iranian style brotherhoods were present as well  in Turkish sufism. The Capital city was Konya (Iconium) in the middle of anatolia. Written Arabic was used in matters of religion which was then was worded into Arabic scripted Turkish. As you already mentioned and in what I agree with the Arabic language and its rich history provided the Seljuks with religious institutions. The Seljuks revived and reinvigorated the classical Islamic educational system, developing universities (madrasahs) to train Bureaucrats and religious officials.
 
 
 
Below is the Seljuks advancement to the arts.
 
The Seljuk period in the history of art and architecture extends for approximately two centuries from the Seljuk conquest in the second quarter of 11th century to the establishment of the Ilkhan dynasty in the second quarter of the 13th century. During this period, the centre of power within the Islamic world shifted from the Arab territories to Anatolia and Iran, with the traditional centres now residing in the Seljuk capitals - Merv, Nishapur, Rayy and Isfahan.

In spite of the Turkish invaders, this era of Persian revival, beginning with the publication of Firdawsi's "Shah-namah", constitutes for Persia a period of intensively creative artistic development. The sheer productivity of these centuries in the visual arts, in comparison with the art from earlier centuries represents a quantum leap forward.

 


Edited by Seko - 07-Oct-2007 at 04:03
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2007 at 04:16
Hello Seko
 
We are already off topic but I'll answer your question regarding Arabic language. The Buyahids were the first dynasty to officially use persian in thier government correspondents. All the other Islamic countries used Arabic. Remember that Al-Bairuni's book about India was an official report to the king of Ghaznah Mahmud and it was written in Arabic. Actually, the overwhelming philosophical and scientific heritage until the fall of Baghdad was written in Arabic and it was mostly done by Persians. The Nizami colledges started by Nizam Al Mulk which taught philosophy and science in addition to jurispudence were all in Arabic until the fall of Baghdad. Even Divan Lughat e-Turk by Kashghari was written in Arabic. The language of administration remained Arabic until the Ghurid came. The adopted Persian because most of the civil servants they employed were persians. The later Saljukes after their schism with the Abbasids lived in either Esfahan or Merv not Baghdad and found that it was more convenient to use Persian rather than Arabic in administration because there were no Arabs. The switch came around the mid 12th century.  
 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2007 at 04:18
I have one last comment before we continue get off topic. You mentioned the Diwans, as in Divan. That is a persian word for court or body of government btw. The Ottomans used an Arabic script called Diwani but that was much different and later during Ottoman times. Famous use of it in Ottoman Sultan caligraphy.
 
I think we can agree that Arabic and Persian was the language of the government and Turkish for the populace.
 
Edit- I recently wrote this before your post.
 
What got me interested in writing was that you originally stated that the use of Arabic was during the period in time of Manikert. My suggestion has been that Persian remained the courts language.
 
Also...
 
As Seljuk Turkish was introduced into anatolia it had already obsorbed Persian and Arabic loan words. Though the script was Arabic the language was Turkish. Persian and Arabic forms of Turkish words are the following: Seluklular (modern Turkish); in Persian سلجوقيان Saljūqiyān; in Arabic سلجوق Saljūq, or السلاجقة al-Salājiqa. Kashgarli Mahmut's lugat of Turkish words was an example for mainly the Caliphs.
Dīwān ul-Lughat al-Turk (Arabic: Collection of Turkic words) in 1072.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Seko - 07-Oct-2007 at 04:42
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2008 at 21:44
Here is a good source if you are still interested in this epic battle!

Spero Vyronis The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor University of California press,1971

It has some really good chapters about the Battle of Manzikert.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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