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Remote Eastern Iranian Languages
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Afghanan View Drop Down
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Remote Eastern Iranian Languages
    Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 22:35

Shugni-Yazgulami

The Shughni, Sarikoli and Yazgulyam languages belong to the Shugni-Yazgulami sub-branch. There are about 60,000 speakers of Shughni in Tajikistan and Afghanistan (including the dialects of Rushani, Oroshani, Bartangi, Oroshor, Khufi and Shughni). As of 1982, There were about 20,000 speakers of Sarikoli in the Sarikol Valley of southwest Xinjiang Province, China. Shughni and Sarikoli are not mutually intelligible. In 1994, There were 4000 speakers of Yazgulyam along the Yazgulyam River in Tajikistan. Yazgulyam is not written.

Munji

The Munji language is closely related to Yidgha, and in 1992 There were around 2500 speakers in the Munjan and Mamalgha Valleys of northeastern Afghanistan.

Sanglechi-Ishkashimi

There are about 2500 speakers of Sanglechi-Ishkashimi in Afghanistan and Tajikistan (dialects: Sanglechi, Ishkashimi, Zebaki). Sanglechi-Ishkashimi is not a written language.

Wakhi

There are around 29,000 speakers of the Wakhi language in Pakistan, Tajikistan, China, and possibly still in Afghanistan.

Yidgha

There are about 6000 speakers of Yidgha in Pakistan. Yidgha is closely related to the Munji language of Afghanistan.
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 22:39

Scholars attest that after Bactrian was further established in the Hindu Kush, many variants of the language existed and developed unique and seperate from Bactrian. When the region of Bactria was overwhelmed by Arabs and their Persian speaking descendants (who changed Parsi into Farsi) Bactrian was becoming an extinct language and quickly replaced with "Farsi."

Meanwhile in the isolated valleys of the Hindu Kush, the Eastern Iranian derivatives of Bactrian remained relatively unchanged and the languages developed uniquely different. When ancient manuscripts of Bactrian were found, scholars were amazed as to how many words in Bactrian were used by different speakers of related languages.

user posted image

All these languages are known as "Eastern Iranian." And of these Eastern Iranian languages, all of them are classified as "South Eastern Iranian." Most likely these languages and their peoples were related to the Scythians.

Iranian languages break down like this:

Iranian Branch of the
Indo-Iranian Languages

Eastern Group

North East Group

Ossetian
Yaghnobi

South Eastern Group

Pashto (Pakht'o)
MunjiYidGa (idGa)
IkmiSangleci
Wxi (xik) 
uGniBajuvi
RoniXufi
BartangiOrooriSarikoli
YazGulmi

Of Eastern Iranian languages, the most widely spoken Iranian language is Pashto. The Encyclopedia of Iran states :

user posted image

Just in case the screenshot of the excerpt from the Encyclopedia Iranica doesn't work, heres the text form:

"...The Afghans or Pashtun are characterized by : (1) Their language, Pashto, the most important Iranian language of the east, with a remarkably rich literature..."

Because Pashto is the most popular language, it has been stated by Scholars of Iranian languages as being very important in the understanding of other Eastern Iranian languages.

"Pashto is among the most conservative and archaic of Iranian languages in its morphology and grammar and is an important tool in the study of Iranian dialects." - Khodadad Rezakhani

Back to Roshani, there are lots of similar words that are related to Pashto, here are a few of them:

Afghanistan

Pashto: Awghanistan
Rokhani: Awghanistan

Age

Pashto: Kaal
Rokhani: Kaal

Large

Pashto: Ghatha
Rokhani: Ghala*

Apple

Pashto: Mana
Rokhani: Man

Black/Dark

Pashto: Tor/Tora
Rokhani: Torak

Brother

Pashto: Wror
Rokhani: Vro

Four

Pashto: Tsalor
Rokhani: Tsawor

Five

Pashto: Pinzeh
Rokhani: Pinz

Knife

Pashto: Chale
Rokhani: Chada

When?

Pashto: Tsa Wakht?
Rokhani: Tsa Vakht?

I'm sure these simlarities I found are just scratching the surface.  I'm trying to find more information about Eastern Iranian languages of the Pamirs, but all these languages do not have a written history or language.

There are pictures of these people and their features are very similar to Iranian peoples.

user posted image

Pamiri Girls in Afg-Pak Border - Badakhshan Region

user posted image

Shugni Woman from Tajikistan
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2005 at 04:44

Very good thread Afghanan, I believe Iran also had many archaic pockets like this too before Reza Shah.

I will add Persian for comparison to your list:

Afghanistan

Pashto: Awghanistan
Rokhani: Awghanistan

Afghaanestaan

Age

Pashto: Kaal
Rokhani: Kaal

Sen (could be arabic)

Large

Pashto: Ghatha
Rokhani: Ghala*

Bozorg, dorosht


Apple

Pashto: Mana
Rokhani: Man

Seeb

Black/Dark

Pashto: Tor/Tora
Rokhani: Torak

Tarik (dark), meshki (black), sia (black)

Brother

Pashto: Wror
Rokhani: Vro

Baradar

Four

Pashto: Tsalor
Rokhani: Tsawor

Chahar

Five

Pashto: Pinzeh
Rokhani: Pinz

Panj

Knife

Pashto: Chale
Rokhani: Chada

Chaghoo, kart

When?

Pashto: Tsa Wakht?
Rokhani: Tsa Vakht?

Che Vakht (direct translation to Persian would be "what moment?"), Kei?
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Posts: 256 		  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2005 at 07:59

I just wanted to add this.
"Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2005 at 12:55
Age

Pashto: Kaal
Rokhani: Kaal

Sen (could be arabic)

Large

Pashto: Ghatha
Rokhani: Ghala*

Bozorg, dorosht

Similar Persian words are Saal (Age) and Gunda (Large).
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 08:21
Chaqu is probably turkic in origin, I we got it from the seljuks.
Vaqt is arabic.
Another word for black in persian is Zang.
And ultimately Avghan(erroneous called afghan today) is a persian word and lent to other nearby languages. The british however populized the word.
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 10:26

The word Avghan  was used in Sanskrit before Persian.  The first Persian occurence was in the form of "Abgan" in Sassanian inscriptions.

 
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 12:41
Both Chaqu and Vaqt are definitely Persian words, Chaqu comes from old Persian word Chakuch which means "hammer" and Vaqt from Vakta (time).
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 18:20
Ahla Al-Awqat, means the best of times wich is a popular phraze in arabic. Awqat is plural form of vaqt. Or are you suggesting that the word was borrowed by the arabs? And chaqu being a derivate of chakush is a bit far fetched.. But I will give you the benefit of doubt as I havent double checked my info... but I will tomorrow.

edit/ I checked now. Sorry you are wrong on both of the words. I checked Farhang Farsi Amid

Edited by Shompis
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 18:43
Originally posted by Afghanan

The word Avghan  was used in Sanskrit before Persian.  The first Persian occurence was in the form of "Abgan" in Sassanian inscriptions.

 



Source? Not that I dont believe you. But I would like to know more as I thought that the word is pratisthana in sanskrit, wich ultimately hindis pathan comes from.


Edited by Shompis
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 19:06

Click Here for the discussion on All Empires  on the Origins of the Afghans:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4051& ;PN=2
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 10:45

Ahla Al-Awqat, means the best of times wich is a popular phraze in arabic. Awqat is plural form of vaqt. Or are you suggesting that the word was borrowed by the arabs?

As I mentioned here about Vachir (Vizier/Minister), "va-" is a prefix for emphasizing (for example did=see & vadid=visit), Gtah (Modern Persian Gah [Gahnameh=Calendar]) means "Time" (Zaman in Arabic), so Vagta/Vakta also means "Time/Occasion".

And chaqu being a derivate of chakush is a bit far fetched.. But I will give you the benefit of doubt as I havent double checked my info... but I will tomorrow.

edit/ I checked now. Sorry you are wrong on both of the words. I checked Farhang Farsi Amid

I have Amid, Moin and Dehkhoda Perisan dictionaries, all of them have mentioned that Chaqu comes form Chakuch, I think the Turkish word for Knife is "Bisak".
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Posts: 1426 		  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 12:28
no it's not bisak it's bıak(bichak)

also similar words aki (Chaki) small pocket knife) and eki(chekich) hammer

bıak(bichak) derives from bi+mak = "to saw" or "to cut"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 18:48
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Ahla Al-Awqat, means the best of times wich is a popular phraze in arabic. Awqat is plural form of vaqt. Or are you suggesting that the word was borrowed by the arabs?

As I mentioned here about Vachir (Vizier/Minister), "va-" is a prefix for emphasizing (for example did=see & vadid=visit), Gtah (Modern Persian Gah [Gahnameh=Calendar]) means "Time" (Zaman in Arabic), so Vagta/Vakta also means "Time/Occasion".

And chaqu being a derivate of chakush is a bit far fetched.. But I will give you the benefit of doubt as I havent double checked my info... but I will tomorrow.

edit/ I checked now. Sorry you are wrong on both of the words. I checked Farhang Farsi Amid

I have Amid, Moin and Dehkhoda Perisan dictionaries, all of them have mentioned that Chaqu comes form Chakuch, I think the Turkish word for Knife is "Bisak".



Lets just say that we agree that we disagree as I do not acknowledge any of that. Also language is studied on a genetic level.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 19:15
What do you mean, "language is on a genetic level"?
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 11:46

 

Wakhi Girl in China (Called Locally in Chinese as Tajiks)

Wakhi Children in China

Wakhi Child

Wakhi Farmer

 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2008 at 21:03
*Bump
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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