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Loknar
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Topic: Chinese troops in the Imjin War Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 03:18 |
I actually was talking on another forum about this conflict and the actions of Chinese soldiers against Choson civilians came up.
Someone claimed that Chinese generals would behead Choson civilians to add to their stockpile of heads, that Chinese soldiers raped Choson women ect ect
I was wondering of anybody has any additional info on this subject?
Edited by Loknar
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Conan the destroyer
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Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 10:52 |
The Chinese soldiers certainly commited atrocities in Korea. But probably not on a particularly large scale. Many historians completely overexagerate.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 14:46 |
Originally posted by Conan the destroyer
The Chinese soldiers certainly commited
atrocities in Korea. But probably not on a particularly large scale.
Many historians completely overexagerate. |
Perhaps.
I think some Korean sources claimed that the destruction caused by the
Ming almost came close to the destruction caused by the Japanese.
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I/eye
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Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 20:43 |
i think that one's an exageration..
Japanese troops were much greater in number and they went to more places than Ming troops..
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poirot
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Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 20:49 |
I think it is completely possible that Chinese troops committed atrocities in Choson. The soldiers of the Ming were poorly fed and often unpaid, due to corrupt civil officials and the Emperor's extravagance. Now, add in an expedition to a foreign nation. It was entirely possible that some soldiers of the Ming army raped and pillaged to let out their rage against authorities.
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jiangweibaoye
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Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 11:25 |
I agree. Anything is possible. Whenever a foreign army enters a country (whether it is an ally or enemy) you are always going to have rapes and pillaging. It is also true that the Ming army was poorly trained and fed (Emperor Wanli was one of the worst Emperors in Chinese History, made worse because they really needed somebody of ability at that critical time, like Yongle), but I understand that the Northern Armies was the cream of the crop. However, just because they are highly trained and paid for does not mean that they will not commit crimes. Look what happen during the crusades. There was rape and pillaging by the European knights too (one on the many reasons why the crusades was doom from the beginning).
It is also entirely possible that the Ming Army destruction of Korea was as great as the Japanese, but I tend to think it was not as bad (still terrible). Due solely to the assumption that the Korean goverment must have logged complaints the the Ming court/army about their criminal activities, thus prompting the Ming Armies to at least make a half hearted attempt to stop the pillaging. It is a little hard for me to think the Ming Generals would have a deaf ear to their Korean counterpart's complaint, and it is a little hard for me to think that the Korean Government and Generals would just accept it. However, I may be wrong. But regardless, it is wrong for any army to enter a foreign country and commit these kind of crimes.
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heyamigos
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 06:41 |
They said this war almost killed 1/5th of Korea's men. When the Japanese lost, some Japanese who took Korean wives during the war refused to leave Korea and the Korean king pardoned them (granted they became Koreans) and seeing that too much of the population had been destroyed. You have to understand, any soldier will go mad in this circumstance and those Ming Chinese soldiers were just asked to help do a favor.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 06:52 |
Stephen Turnball and Ken Swope have done some good work on this subject area. Welcome to the forum. CV
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 12:03 |
Thr Japanese troops did quite well. I have read it was the sheer mass of Ming which stopped them.
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heyamigos
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 18:58 |
^More like strategy. When the Sui and Tang used the same number of "sheer mass" of troops against Koguryo Korean kingdom, they were often repelled due to weather, geography and mainly battle strategy. The later bands of Ming troops used to fight the Japanese in Korea were from the south where they employed Western-influenced firearms to use against the Japanese and whom they also used similar swords (miao-dao, similar to Japanese katanas) from the exchanges and battles they fought with Japanese pirates decades earlier.
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 19:01 |
I was under the impression the Japanese had plenty of muskets?
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 19:02 |
Anyway the Japanese did quite well against the Koreans and Ming.
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heyamigos
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 19:10 |
^They did for a first time international encounter in battle. The Chinese at first did not take them seriously and only sent a ragtag force in the couple thousands to aid the Koreans. After being almost entirely wiped out after 2 battles, they knew it was more serious than thought. A bigger question and theory would have been had not the Korean navies helped defeat and sink down a good portion of the invading Japanese and just allowed them to pass through and 'duke it out' with the Ming Chinese, what would have been the outcome? for sure, all the best armies of the Chinese Emperor would have to be recalled from the Great Wall border regions (leaving areas vulnerable to Mongol and Manchu invasion) to engage the Japanese. Even if they defeated the Japanese (after much loss), the nomads would have breached the Great Wall again. That is why the Chinese 'vassal' system weakened its neighbors who depended it on their own survival. There was no need to sustain a local fighting force, when it was counted on 'big brother.'
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 19:13 |
Good points. A full Japanese force might be able to crush te Ming.
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