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Total Quiz X, part 2
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fastspawn View Drop Down
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Posts: 269 		  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Total Quiz X, part 2
    Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 21:23
just my 2 cents,

why don't we let the max score be a % score instead of a fixed number.

For example if i have 2 questions that are on the quiz, instead of having a max score of 15 i should have a max score of 13. I think this gives the contributor of the question a slight advantage if he gives a tough question, and a drawback if he gives a question easily answered.
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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3151 		  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 22:10
Bonus for round two is 1*[ ((10+1.778) / 10)  *  (4/2) ] ~= 2.356.


I think you got it switched around. ((10+1.778) / 10) Should be 10/(10+1.778)

Mathematically, ( AP(qw�s pts rd1) / LP(Leader's pts rd1) )  cannot exceed 1

Yeah, when TJK and I (yes, I was actually very into this back then) wrote those forumulas, we really stumbled on the round two bonuses. The concept is to use probability sampling, but as you know, in a quiz with this few questions, theres a problem. The only way of getting away from this fully is to have a dedicated team of question writers who don't participate.
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 23:40

I'm surprised you did not notice my note though - you even replied to it.

I said I thought I put Sven, (actually Svein) and I didn't want to waste time putting a redundant answer.

Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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TJK View Drop Down
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Posts: 367 		  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 01:32

Well, this was not precisely described but:

1. Leader points for round one should be also calculated with bonus points

2. The bonus points for the questions should be calculated only in one round (1st or 2nd)
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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 02:16

I think you got it switched around. ((10+1.778) / 10) Should be 10/(10+1.778)

No.

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus



Mathematically, ( AP(qw�s pts rd1) / LP(Leader's pts rd1) )  cannot exceed 1

Yeah, when TJK and I (yes, I was actually very into this back then) wrote those forumulas, we really stumbled on the round two bonuses. The concept is to use probability sampling, but as you know, in a quiz with this few questions, theres a problem. The only way of getting away from this fully is to have a dedicated team of question writers who don't participate.

Mathematically the quotient can exceed one - unless you meant bonus points should be included in the denominator, which I suppose you would state explicitly since you did it in the numerator variable...

Edit: apparently they should. Please add that.

TJK, if you count 1 or 2, a player can end up without points for a question in round 2.



Edited by Styrbiorn
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TJK View Drop Down
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Posts: 367 		  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 02:26

TJK, if you count 1 or 2, a player can end up without points for a question in round 2.

Yes, in case nobody will score in the round 2..this means the question was to hard..
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Serge L View Drop Down
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Posts: 485 		  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 11:18

WHAT ... I go to vacations for 13 days (just 13!) and when I am back I found you run an entire TQ edition w/o me! Me, the second Moderator after "father" Kolovrat ( !

And not only you did not  wait for me, there is not even a question of mine in the quiz (maybe for the first time since I started to play, not sure). I feel so uselessss!!!

 

 

 

 

Just joking! 

 

I know very well it's impossible to wait anyone: everytime is a bad time for someone, when the related group is large enough

My congratulations to everybody: The excellent Moderator Styrbiorn , the Former and deputy- moderator TJK , everyone who participated , and, of course, the Winner. Good job, Dawn!   W/o taking anything from the exceptional fastspawn, I think you deserved to win, at least for your tenacity (or, how was Styrbiorn wrote, bull-headedness ?)

As to the bonus points for question makers, that was longly debated twice, first between Cyrus and me, and then, later, with TJK and other people. That last time we produced that complicated formulas, and realized there was no perfect system (or, at least, we found none) that permitted everybody, who submitted at least an answer) to reach no more no lesser score than somebody who created no question but answered every (there was a looong thread on the old forum about that).

IMHO, to have the question maker to be able to have a plus is a good policy, since encourage questions' submission: however, Styrbiorn, feel free to change the rules if you so wish, since practically all previous moderators did so, up to a certain extent.

Finally, a special mention for Cyrus (+ whomever helped him), who rebuilt this forum . . . with all this  funny animated smilies I am enjoying to test now.

 
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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3151 		  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 15:12
Mathematically the quotient can exceed one - unless you meant bonus points should be included in the denominator, which I suppose you would state explicitly since you did it in the numerator variable...


hmm, if I still have the same thinking as I did long ago, Round 1 bonuses should be calculated immediately after round one is over, and that score is then used in subsequent equations as the current total score for that player earned in round one. Mathematically, round one bonuses are independent from round two scores.

So the denominator would include bonuses in round 1 because bonuses should be immediaetly added after that round. (The quotient cannot exceed one because even if the author has the highest score, then the denominator would be that score because he/she is also the leader).



Edited by Imperator Invictus
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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2004 at 10:08
Originally posted by Serge L

WHAT ... I go to vacations for 13 days (just 13!) and when I am back I found you run an entire TQ edition w/o me! Me, the second Moderator after "father" Kolovrat ( !

And not only you did not  wait for me, there is not even a question of mine in the quiz (maybe for the first time since I started to play, not sure). I feel so uselessss!!!

 

 

 

 

Just joking! 

Yeah, I was keeping constant watch at your 'latest online' date, even considering postponing the thing when you hadn't shown up the day before the quiz start. I should've checked the away thread...

But I know how you feel, I think I missed 3-4 whole quizzes due to me being in the army.

 
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Serge L View Drop Down
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Posts: 485 		  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 04:33

No problem, Styrbiorn, really.

Well, did you decide whether and how to change the bonus rules?
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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2004 at 15:39
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

to Dawn for never giving up just because having afew more or less totally incorrect answers. Or, wesay here,for being bull-headed.




Ooops, just saw that expression means 'stupid' in New World slang. What we call bullheaded is called pigheaded in the Anglo countries. Hope I didn't cause too grave misunderstandings...
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Serge L View Drop Down
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Posts: 485 		  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 11:01
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

 to Dawn for never giving up just because having a few more or less totally incorrect answers. Or, we say here, for being bull-headed.




Ooops, just saw that expression means 'stupid' in New World slang. What we call bullheaded is called pigheaded in the Anglo countries. Hope I didn't cause too grave misunderstandings...

Hmmm... one has to wonder whether bulls and pigs have different attitudes on the opposite shores of the Atlantic ...
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