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France Will Not Repeal Head Scarf Law

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: France Will Not Repeal Head Scarf Law
    Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 13:09
I'm sure someone in France must of thought of it, but there are always very conservative minded folk who would regard such an approach as undermining the symbols of their religion, bla bla, so...
You can never please everyone.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 13:21

ArmenianSurvival, "awful massacres against the Armenians in Turkey", It was their country. End of story?

In Iran women are forced to wear the hijab and in France they are forced to not wear the hijab, is there any difference between them? I think both of them are against the freedom of the individual!

Is two victims enough for France that didn't support the US in the war against the terrorism?

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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 13:28
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

ArmenianSurvival, "awful massacres against the Armenians in Turkey", It was their country. End of story?

In Iran women are forced to wear the hijab and in France they are forced to not wear the hijab, is there any difference between them? I think both of them are against the freedom of the individual!

Is two victims enough for France that didn't support the US in the war against the terrorism?

Yes, and it's the land of the French too. They have a century long tradition of a secular school, and I can very well understand why they want to continue with that, given their history. It's not that they force them to abandon their religion - they are completely free to pray to whatever god or gods they want and erect buildings of worship (that is quite a lot more than you can do in Iran, right?) - but not in the public institution that is the school.

To say France is not supporting the struggle against terrorism is extemely unfair, since France have been a victim of terrorism far longer than the US, and thus been fighting it longer too. I can neither see that the attack on Irak as a part of a war against terrorism. Sure, some people from within Irak did support terrorists, but following that logic, you have to invade the US itself too - remember from where the IRA got a lot of funding?



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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 15:15

 

 

Reuters
French Hostages Handed Over to Iraqi Group

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PARIS (Reuters) - The editor of the French newspaper Le Figaro said Thursday that Islamic militants had handed over two French journalists to an Iraqi group that has said it was in favor of releasing them.

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Jean de Belot said on France Info radio that the news was positive, but that he remained cautious until the men were in safe hands.

"The latest information is that Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot have been handed over by the Islamic Army in Iraq (news - web sites) to an Iraqi Sunni guerrilla group ... an opposition that we know for a few days now has been in favor of the release of the hostages," de Belot said.

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 15:29

Cyrus....Trying to keep religion out of schools is completely different than the massacre of a religious minority and taking their homelands. I understand what youre saying in that it is an obstruction of their freedoms, but they also banned Jewish headwear, and crosses as well. If the law was only against Muslims, i would agree with you 100%, but they applied it to all religions, even their own. They are free to worship. Thats a big leap ahead of some Muslim countries and how they deal with their religious minorities.

And attacking Iraq when the U.N. was already sanctioning them everywhere even where the sun don't shine isnt an attack on terrorism. Its Bush trying to act like the new sherrif in town, the lone ranger. He is from Texas, afterall.

And can you blame those terrorists? I dont think anyone who comes from a country that hasnt been raped can understand the frustration that a terrorist has. All that strength he shows with his gun and his words is a shield to hide all the pain he has felt for his own people and his country for his whole life. People miss the point...the reason terrorism came into play in the first place was to get the public to notice WHY that person did what he did. People look too much at the action and not enough at the reason. Im not saying its right, the way they push their ideas forward is completely wrong in my opinion. My country has been raped repeatedly but do i go around capturing Muslims and holding them for ransom? No, because my logic and humanism supersedes my pain.

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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 15:39
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

And can you blame those terrorists? I dont think anyone who comes from a country that hasnt been raped can understand the frustration that a terrorist has. All that strength he shows with his gun and his words is a shield to hide all the pain he has felt for his own people and his country for his whole life. People miss the point...the reason terrorism came into play in the first place was to get the public to notice WHY that person did what he did. People look too much at the action and not enough at the reason. Im not saying its right, the way they push their ideas forward is completely wrong in my opinion. My country has been raped repeatedly but do i go around capturing Muslims and holding them for ransom? No, because my logic and humanism supersedes my pain.

 

"Raped"? The Age of Imperialism is over by half a century at least, and I despise how people  - there as well as in the West itself - try to blaim the West on everyone's failure. China was used, India and South East Asia much more so, but they are today very succesful, or on the way of becoming. Blaming someone else for his own failure is quite a "human" behaviour, easy but extremely childish. And reasons? Well, these people (I'm thinking al Q now) are Wahhabist maniacs who won't stop until the whole world shares their fundamentalistic ideas. Education is the only think that can erase it in the long run, but it will take a very long time...



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  Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 16:02

He is from Texas, afterall.

er.....I'm going to interpret that as meaning lone ranger as in the Lone Ranger was from Texas.

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  Quote John Doe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 17:08

Re: that comment on the law curtailing individual freedoms...

the law is only in reference to schools... while at school, no symbols of religion must be displayed, outside of school, you are free to do what you want.

Do French school children wear uniforms? Are they allowed to smoke in school?
These questions relate to individual freedom and choice as well, should school children be allowed to wear anything they want and do anything they want on public tax payer funded premises?

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 17:14
IIRC, many French schools don't have uniforms, rare on much of the continent AFAIK.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 18:04
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

And can you blame those terrorists? I dont think anyone who comes from a country that hasnt been raped can understand the frustration that a terrorist has. All that strength he shows with his gun and his words is a shield to hide all the pain he has felt for his own people and his country for his whole life. People miss the point...the reason terrorism came into play in the first place was to get the public to notice WHY that person did what he did. People look too much at the action and not enough at the reason. Im not saying its right, the way they push their ideas forward is completely wrong in my opinion. My country has been raped repeatedly but do i go around capturing Muslims and holding them for ransom? No, because my logic and humanism supersedes my pain.

 

"Raped"? The Age of Imperialism is over by half a century at least, and I despise how people  - there as well as in the West itself - try to blaim the West on everyone's failure. China was used, India and South East Asia much more so, but they are today very succesful, or on the way of becoming. Blaming someone else for his own failure is quite a "human" behaviour, easy but extremely childish. And reasons? Well, these people (I'm thinking al Q now) are Wahhabist maniacs who won't stop until the whole world shares their fundamentalistic ideas. Education is the only think that can erase it in the long run, but it will take a very long time...

So i guess Palestinians should just forget about the fact that their homeland for thousands of years was simply handed as a gift to the Jews? China and all the countries of the far east werent used as much as the countries of the middle east. And plus, China and India have populations of over 1 billion, hard not to consider them some kind of a force to be reckoned with. How many Palestinians are there? Far less than a billion, thats for sure. If Palestinians had any kind of power they wouldnt resort to terrorism. Why do you think a country like Armenia doesn't resort to terrorism? Because we have the 2nd best foreign representation in U.S. congress behind the Jews, and a bunch of Armenian rebels in Nagorno-Karabagh were still powerful enough to take over 1/5 of Azerbaijan. Thats why we dont resort to terrorism, because we actually have some kind of power, as little as it may be. Only people that have no other choice caused by a lack of power resort to terrorism.

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  Quote Ptolemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 18:09
Does anyone know how this law relates to religous tatoos?
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 20:46

Does anyone know how this law relates to religous tatoos?

I would guess cover them up either with clothing or bandages?

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 03:25
You can't compare hijab with other religious things, many muslim women are ready to lose their heads but not their hijab, I'm sure that many muslim girls in france had to ignore school because of this law and it is an oppression against them.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 05:48
Well so far its been no big deal, some of the girls have taken to wearing wigs over their hair. Nice.
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 17:53

 

 

Confusion Over Fate of French Hostages in Iraq


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By Kerstin Gehmlich

PARIS (Reuters) - Confusion surrounded the fate of two French journalists held hostage in Iraq (news - web sites) on Thursday after a new purported statement from the kidnappers denied they had demanded a $5 million ransom or set a 48-hour deadline.


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"We remain in the same state of hope -- confident and cautious at the same time," government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope said on Wednesday after Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin discussed the issue with top officials.

An Internet statement purportedly from the Islamic Army in Iraq militant group holding Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot dismissed a statement that appeared on the Web on Monday in the name of the militants.

"There is absolutely no truth to the statement carried by the media on the Internet ... comprising financial and other demands," said the statement, posted on a Web site identified as belonging to the Islamic Army in Iraq.

Another statement on the same Web site said the group was warning "any party whatsoever from interfering" in the case of the French hostages, who were both seized on Aug. 20.

"The Islamic Army's legal committee will announce its decision soon, God willing," said the statement.

France was stunned by the kidnappings because it had opposed the U.S.-led war in Iraq and has not sent troops to the country.

No sightings of the men have been made since Aug 28 when Arabic television station Al Jazeera broadcast a brief video tape of what it said were the two journalists standing in front of an Islamic Army in Iraq banner.

Al Jazeera said the kidnappers had demanded the French government scrap a ban on Muslim headscarves in state schools and had given Paris 48 hours to comply.

But the French government rejected the demand and the ban went into force last week.

In solidarity with the two hostages, hundreds of people attended a Paris concert sponsored by media rights group Reporters Without Borders on Wednesday night, dancing beneath giant posters of the journalists.

Raffarin's government had mobilized unprecedented support from Arab capitals and Islamic groups, and it was so optimistic about the success of this strategy that ministers said last weekend the men's release was imminent.

But hopes for a quick release were dented by a surge of violence in Iraq and the kidnapping on Tuesday of two Italian women aid workers in Baghdad.

Scores of hostages from many countries have been seized in the past five months in a guerrilla campaign to undermine Iraq's U.S.-backed interim government. More than 20 have been killed.


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  Quote TMPikachu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 20:35

Originally posted by fastspawn

i agree that the French should not repeal the head scarf law to appease the terrorist kidnappers. However i feel that this law is contrary to the French Ideals.

Making a country secular is the opposite of imposing a strict religion on them:The religion of secularism. Banning all religious artifacts, is imposing on a person's right to worship.

Still, the laws of Islam and Christianity say to obey the laws of the land. Personally I think it is France alone is who should decide on this issue.

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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 15:55
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

There is a difference between laique and secular, I believe.

For instance, Turkey is said to be secular, but in fact it is laique (Turkish word is also 'laik'). Turkish state controls the religion, it keeps it away from the public sphere (no headscarves even in universities!) and dictates what the imams will preach in mosques, whose wages are paid by the state (i.e. taxes).

I'm not sure if France is like that too, but I guess there's a fundamental difference between the French model (laique) and the British model (secular).

can you enlight us why The Turkish state controls the religion and how?

i really wonder...

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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 08:45
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

And can you blame those terrorists? I dont think anyone who comes from a country that hasnt been raped can understand the frustration that a terrorist has. All that strength he shows with his gun and his words is a shield to hide all the pain he has felt for his own people and his country for his whole life. People miss the point...the reason terrorism came into play in the first place was to get the public to notice WHY that person did what he did. People look too much at the action and not enough at the reason. Im not saying its right, the way they push their ideas forward is completely wrong in my opinion. My country has been raped repeatedly but do i go around capturing Muslims and holding them for ransom? No, because my logic and humanism supersedes my pain.

 

 

"Raped"? The Age of Imperialism is over by half a century at least, and I despise how people  - there as well as in the West itself - try to blaim the West on everyone's failure. China was used, India and South East Asia much more so, but they are today very succesful, or on the way of becoming. Blaming someone else for his own failure is quite a "human" behaviour, easy but extremely childish. And reasons? Well, these people (I'm thinking al Q now) are Wahhabist maniacs who won't stop until the whole world shares their fundamentalistic ideas. Education is the only think that can erase it in the long run, but it will take a very long time...

You know nothing. If age of imperialism was over why was Cyprus in the hands of British until 1970's?

This is nonsense. In China, you get beaten to pulp if you defy the government just as you get to be if you defy the "religion" in Saudi Arabia. Just because they make some electrical parts dosn't mean they are developed.

Yea, India is successful because there are ethnic and religious hatred that are scathing the country and because brides get to be killed there for not paying enough dowry. Your definition of success?

You understand nothing of this issue. Can the Al-Qaeda alone conquer the world? As long as America seeks to exploit the middle east, economically through corperations and poltically through dictators (Saudi King, Jordanian King, Egyptian dictator), the disgruntled natives will be easy recruits for their enemies. If people do not have reason to hate America, they will stop being brainwashed into joining terrorists like Al-Qaeda.

Thus America is ploughing the land for terrorists to sow.

By the way, your "Wahabists" that are in power in Saudi Arabia are reciving direct funding from United States. So much for the end of Age of Imperialism.



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