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jimmyboi
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Topic: Greatest warriors of Ancient China? Posted: 04-May-2012 at 23:24 |
Hi, Recently I started to gain an interest in Chinese warriors. I tried google, but I rather hear it from real people. What are the greatest warriors of Ancient China? And what did they accomplish? |
Edited by jimmyboi - 04-May-2012 at 23:34
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 04-May-2012 at 23:26 |
Define the time frame more specifically.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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jimmyboi
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Posted: 04-May-2012 at 23:31 |
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis
Define the time frame more specifically. |
Qin Dynasty - Ming Dynasty
excluding Yuan/ Qing for obvious reasons
Edited by jimmyboi - 04-May-2012 at 23:32
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 04-May-2012 at 23:45 |
Han XinWei Qing Both from the Han and for the same reasons mainstream has already identified. From the Ming...probably Liu Ji....he was more then just a general....but most Chinese generals were and he gets high credit for his treatise..'Lessons of War'. Most famous overall....Sun Tzu for self explanatory reasons. Closely followed by Sun Bin and his 'Art of War' and Wu Qi and his classic 'Wu tzu'..all from the warring states period. These examples are proof that the Chinese military leaders were not just soldiers but statesmen and prolific thinkers and executioners of their trade craft. Long before, in many cases, the advent of their contemporaries many centuries later in the west. There are of course notable exceptions in the west during this period...but that's another subject.
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 04-May-2012 at 23:50
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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jimmyboi
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Posted: 04-May-2012 at 23:52 |
Great information. What about Yue Fei? His name comes up a lot in google search results.
Edited by jimmyboi - 04-May-2012 at 23:52
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 05-May-2012 at 00:02 |
Originally posted by jimmyboi
Great information.What about Yue Fei? His name comes up a lot in google search results.
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As it should.... for he deserved his reputation then and now. Yue was from the Song. He is remembered most famously for his outstanding defense versus the Jurchen of the northern Jin. He is also noted for his personal commitment to martial training by/of the masters of his day and his insistence that his common soldiers attempted to reach the same standards. Whether he should receive credit as the premier proponent of martial arts training.... that we define today.... is debatable. He remains today... considered a great national hero that even the communists cant downplay or destroy.
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 05-May-2012 at 00:03
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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heyamigos
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 07:01 |
Han Dynasty- 1)Wudi Emperor, he had many victories against Huns. 2) General Ban Chao- he defeated Huns in a big war and basically decimated them and drove the remnants (women and children and older) to Russia. He extended Chinese borders to modern day Turkmenistan and helped China and Persian establish good trade relations (in silk). Tang Dynasty- 1) Taizong Emperor, he had many victories against Tu-Chueh (Turks). Other Turks (Uygurs) accepted him as "heavenly khan". Invaded Koreans, conquered parts of Central Asia into Afghanistan, conquered Vietnamese. 2) General Su Dingfan - finally defeated last of Gokturks (Tu Chueh) and possibly drove them to Middle East regions. Expanded Chinese armies into Gilgit (northern India). Defeated Paekchae (one of Korean kingdoms). Ming Dynasy- 1) Yongle Emperor - as a teenager, he helped his father drive Mongols back over the Great Wall. After he became Emperor, led over 16 expeditions to Mongolia in his lifetime, burned down the old Genghis Khan capitals of Karabalgasun and Kara-Khoto. Never able to kill of all Mongols because they were nomads. 2) General Yuan Chonghuan - helped Ming Dynasty repel invading Mongol and Manchu armies for many decades employing mainly the use of firearms on the Great Wall.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 19:02 |
Guan Yu, a warrior so successful he was worshiped as a god
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KongMing
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Posted: 11-Sep-2012 at 10:58 |
Still got his butt kicked by Lu Bu, but at least Gaun Yu was a greater leader of his soldiers.
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longbaby
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Posted: 26-Oct-2012 at 19:05 |
I am afraid that you people confused warriors with strategists. The original post demanded a list of greatest warriors of ancient China. In my opinion, it refered to people with greatest personal fighting skills.
Chinese folk knowledge had long ago given the answer. Xiang Yu, Hegemon King of Western Chu, for sure ranks #1. As to #2, I guess Lu Bu deserves the position.
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BoPoMoFo
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Posted: 28-Oct-2012 at 22:38 |
Lu Bu being supremely skilled in martial arts seems to be a fiction only in ROTK. But Xiang Yu was indeed a great hero if not the greatest. And it's ironic that he failed. 蘇東坡 Scholar Su made an excellent annalysis as to why a hero as great as Xiang Yu would fail and a hooligan like Liu Bei would succeed and become the founder of a great dynasty.
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longbaby
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Posted: 28-Oct-2012 at 23:34 |
Very interesting. I would like to know the analysis by Scholar Su. Could you elaborate on it?
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BoPoMoFo
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Posted: 29-Oct-2012 at 01:48 |
Originally posted by longbaby
Very interesting. I would like to know the analysis by Scholar Su. Could you elaborate on it? |
In his 留侯論, a treatise on Chang Liang, Su said Xiang, although invincible, would fight every insignificant battle. Liu Bei, on the other hand, only fought the last critical one. Xiang liked to hold grudges and did not like having people better than he. But Liu was very open and actually welcomed people better than he. The only thing that pushed Liu over Xiang was Liu could endure.
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longbaby
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Posted: 30-Oct-2012 at 07:02 |
What impresses me most about Liu Bang and Xiang Yu are their different reactions when they first saw the grand honour guards of Qin Shi Huang. Liu Bang said: "A big man should be like this." while Xiang Yu said to his uncle: "One day you can replace him."
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BoPoMoFo
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Posted: 04-Nov-2012 at 07:07 |
Originally posted by longbaby
What impresses me most about Liu Bang and Xiang Yu are their different reactions when they first saw the grand honour guards of Qin Shi Huang. Liu Bang said: "A big man should be like this." while Xiang Yu said to his uncle: "One day you can replace him." |
It really speaks of their different personalities, doesn't it?
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heyamigos
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Posted: 13-Nov-2012 at 05:51 |
Xiang Yu was a great warrior, but he wanted to maintain and continue the feudal warring states tradition. He probably would have broken up the empire upon his death and allowed the traditional kingdoms to go its separate ways like in the past. This might have led China to the same path that Europe is today (many separate kingdoms). Fate had it that Liu and Han Dynasty prevailed.
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longbaby
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Posted: 14-Nov-2012 at 01:21 |
Originally posted by heyamigos
Xiang Yu was a great warrior, but he wanted to maintain and continue the feudal warring states tradition. He probably would have broken up the empire upon his death and allowed the traditional kingdoms to go its separate ways like in the past. This might have led China to the same path that Europe is today (many separate kingdoms). Fate had it that Liu and Han Dynasty prevailed. |
Xiang Yu wanted to revive the tradition of warring states? I seriously doubt this. Though he took Chu as his mother kingdom, he still wanted to be an emperor, I think.
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heyamigos
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Posted: 14-Nov-2012 at 03:12 |
His harsh hand rule would have eventually cause other subjected former kingdoms to rise up and again go through the warring states pattern
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Guests
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Posted: 17-Nov-2012 at 00:06 |
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Nick1986
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Posted: 20-Nov-2012 at 07:26 |
I don't understand. There were Indian mercenaries fighting for the Tangs, but where do onions fit into it?
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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