QuoteReplyTopic: For Sharing Chrustian Religious Philosophy Posted: 01-Apr-2012 at 18:07
I love reading religious philosophy, Christian medieval one is particular, so I though to make a thread on which I can post quotes that grabbed my attention while reading one or another such book. I don't have desire to discuss the existence or non-existence of divinity here - just to share and possibly discuss the said quotes.
I'm going to start with "The Divine Milieu", /1957 by Harper Torchbooks/ by
, a French religious philosopher, Jesuit, palentologist and geologist, 1881-1955.
"...Thus every man, in the course of his life, must not only show
himself obedient and docile. By his fidelity he must build - starting
with the most natural territory of his own self - a work, an opus, into
which something enters from all the elements of the earth. He makes his
own soul throughout all his earthly days; and in the sa,e time he
collaborates in another work, in another opus, which infinitely
transcends, while at the same time it narrowly determines, the
perspectives of his individual achievemen: the completing of the world.
For in presenting the christian doctrine of salvation, it must not be
forgotten that the world, taken as a whole, that is not to say in so far
as it consists in a hierarchy of souls - which appears only
successively, develop only collectively and will be completed only in
union - the world, too, undergoes a sort of vast "ontogenesis" /a vast
becoming, that is/ in which the development of every soul, assisted by
the perceptible realities on which it depends, is but a diminished
harmonic. Beneath efforts to put spiritual form into our won lives, the
world slowly accumulates, starting with the whole of matter. that which
wil make of it the Heavelny jerusalem or the New Earth..." pgs. 60-61
"...To create, to organize, material energy, or truth, or beauty, brings
with it the inner torment which prevents those who faced it hazards
form sinking into the quiet and closed-in life wherein grows the vice
of self-regard and attachment /in the technical sense/...pg.71
"...And however autonomous our soul, it's indebted to an inheritance
worked out from all sides - before ever it came into being - by the
totality of the energies of the earth: it meets and rejoins life at a
determined level. Then, hardly has it entered actively into the universe
at that particular point that it feels, in it's turn, besieged and
penetrated by the flow of cosmic influences which have to be ordered and
assimilated. Let us look around us: the waves come from all sides and
from the farthest horizon.
Through every cleft the world we perceive floods us with its riches -
food for the body, nourishment for the eyes, harmony of sounds and
fullness for the heart, unknown phenomena and new truths, all these
treasures, all there stimuli, all these calls, coming to us from the
four corners of the world, cross our consciousness at every moment. What
is their role within us? What will their effect be, even if we welcome
them passively or distinctly, like bad workmen? They will merge into the
most intimate life of our soul and either develop it or poison it. We
only have to look at ourselves for one moment to realise this, and
either feel delight or anxiety.
If even the most humble and most material of our foods is capable of
deeply influencing our most spiritual facilities, what can be said of
the infinitely more penetrating energies conveyed to us by the music of
tones, or words, or ideas? We have not, in us, a body that takes it's
nourishment independently of our soul. Everything that the body has
admitted and has begun to transform must be transfigured by the soul in
its turn. The soul does this, no doubt, in its own way and with its own
dignity. But it cannot escape from this universal contact nor from that
unremitting labor..." pgs. 69-60
"... It is through the collaboration which he stimulates in us that
Christ, starting form all created things, is consummated and atteins his
plentitude. St. Paul himself tells us so. e may, perhaps, imagine that
the creation was finished long ago. but that would be quite wrong. It
continues still more magnificently, and at the highest levels of the
world. And we serve to complete it, even by the humblest work of our
hands. That is, ultimately, the meaning and value of our acts. Owing to
the interrelation between matter, soul, and Christ, we bring part of the
being which he desires back to God in whatever we do. With each one of
our works, we labor - in individual separation, but mo less really - to
build the Pleroma; that is to say, we bring to Christ a little
fulfilment..." pg 62
"...Growth seems so natural to us that we do not, as a matter of fact,
pause to separate from our action the forces which nourish that action
or the circumstances which favor it's success. And yet "quid habes quod
non accepisti" /what does thou possess that thou hast not previously
received?/ We undergo life as much as we undergo death, if no more.
We must try to penetrate our most secret self, and examine our being
from all sides. Let us try, patiently, to perceive the ocean of forces
to which we are sunjected and in which our growth is, as it were,
steeped. This is a salutary exercise; for the depth and universality of
our dependence on so much altogether outside our control all go yo make
up the embracing intimacy of our communion with the world to which we
belong.
...And so, for the first time in my life perhaps /although i'm supposed
to meditate every day!/ I took the lamp and. leaving the zone of
everyday occupation and relationships where everything seems clear, I
went down into my inmost self, to the deep abyss whence I feel dimly
that my power of action emanates. But as I moved further and further
away from the conventional certainties by which social life is
superficially illuminated, I became aware that I was losing contact with
myself. At each step of the descent a new person was disclosed within
me of whose name I was no longer sure, and who no longer obeyed me. And
when I had to stop my exploration because the path faded from beneath my
steps, I found a bottomless abyss at my feet, and out of it came -
arising I know not from where - the current which I dare to call my
life...." ppg, 76-77 Ibid
"...After the consciousness of being something other and something
greater than myself - a second thing made me dizzy; namely, the supreme
improbability, the tremendous unlikelyhood of finding myself existing in
the heart of a world that has survived and succeeded in being a world.
At that moment, as anyone else will find who cares to make this same
interior experiment, I felt the distress characteristic to a particle
adrift in the universe, the distress which makes human wills founder
daily under the crushing number of living things and of stars. And if
something saved me, it was hearing the voice of the Gospel, guaranteed
by divine success, speaing to me from the depth of the night: ego sum,
noli me timere / It is I, be not afraid/..."pg. 78 Ibid
"...Once we realize that the divine milieu discloses itself to us as a
modification of the deep being of things, it is possible to make two
important observations touching the manner in which it's perception is
introduced and preserved within our human horizons.
In the first place, the manifestation of the divine no more modifies the
apparent order of things than the eucharistic consecration modifies the
sacred Species to our eyes. Since the psychological even consists, at
first, solely in the appearance of an inward tension or deep brilliance,
the relations between creatures remains exactly the same. They are
merely accentuated in meaning. Like those translucent materials which a
light within them can illuminate as a whole, the world appears to the
christian mystic bathed in an inward light which intensifies it's
relief, it's structure and its depth. This light is not the superficial
glimmer which can be realised in coarse enjoyment. Nor it is a violent
flash that destroys objects and blind our eyes. It is the calm and
powerful radiance engendered by the synthesis of all the elements of the
world of Jesus. The more fulfilled, according to their nature, are the
beings in whom it comes to play, the closer and more sensible this
radiance appears; and the more sensible it becomes, the more the objects
which it bathes become distinct in contour and remote in substance. If
may slightly alter a hallowed expression, we could say that the great
mystery of Christianity is not exactly the appearance, but the
transparence, of god in the universe...." pgs, 130-131, Ibid
"...The perception of the divine omnipresence is essentially a seeing, a
taste, that is to say a sort of intuition bearing upon certain superior
qualities in things, It cannot, therefore, be attained directly by any
process of reasoning, nor any any human artifice. It is a gift, like
life itself, of which it is undoubtedly the supreme experimental
perfection. And so we are brought back again to the centre of ourselves,
to the edge of that mysterious source to which we descended /at the
beginning of Part Two/and watched it as it welled up. To experience the
attraction of God, to be sensible of the beauty, the consistency and the
final unity of being is the highest and at the same time the mos
complete of our "passivities of growth". God tends, by the logic of his
creative effort, to make himself sought and perceived by us ...Posiut
homines...si forte attrectent eum. His prevenient grace is therefore
always on the alert to excite our first look and our first prayer. But
in the end the initiative, the awakening, always come from him, and
whatever the further developments of our mystical faculties, no progress
is achieved in this domain except as the new response to the new gift.
Nemo venit ad me, nisi Pater traxerit eum...."pgs. 131-132.
I really loved the book, it's a very uplifting, and I love many of the ideas in it, like this oen taht humans are created to create, and that only while creating they are part of the divine milieu, because then they participate in the whole creation thing - so humans are not just crated and placed here to eat each other hearts, but actually are a living part of the whole divine plan.
I can share a thousand tales, verses and scriptures or myths; but first I pose a question.... to what ends?
Because for me, it remains entirely and intensely personal. And what right do others have in sharing what I hold sacred. I don't hold to the prescription that it is my duty to share the wealth...that's for prophets and mystics..and apostles and saints...I'm just a man.
And aye tho a good man...in my estimation...I am yet to be judged....by the master soldier and architect not the lesser.. I remain a sinner. Which is to say...find me in my actions.. not in my words. And for that I find St. James.
Yes tis a warriors view .... I already know that....but Beckett before he was a saint was a warrior.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
To what ends - to whatever ends you see fit. I like to share what I came to find meaningful, and like to be challenged with what others came to see as meaningful. After all it's a question of free choice - to share or not; it's no one's duty, since we are all humans, no matter if we are warriors, mystics, or saints, whatever the last word means - I believe that we are all of that, in different nuances and put stress on different sides, but basically we have all in us from all of those.
So, do as you feel, when you feel so, to whatever ends you see as meaningful - sharing thoughts is not proselyting. In a way, if I accept the thoughts of someone, say the quoted above guy, they become mine too in a sense - this is why humans share, to enrich each other with what each has to offer.
My ends DQ...not your version. For as gallant as you may be...could be and will be...they are not necessarily my ends. The last great example of a fighting warrior lady was Boudicca..a pagan.
After that it was invented by the church ...I still ntl... Revere...Saint Barbara etc...
I don't question your earnest desire to learn more or even come to believe..what I question is my ability to provide you in the way of examples, without ntl, the chauvinistic spirit in which I was trained and yet..god forfend...believe.
Told ya, I am a warrior with a warrior's heart...women do not belong there in my estimation. Their grace and recognition and contribution and purpose remains in their inherent ability to ensure damn fools like me...don't screw it up; even in, their-our-my-earnest desire to ensure an safe and equitable world for all.
That was and is God's mystery and grace for them..their special grace and position.. that no man can have. And power beyond that of a sword. Mother Mary is an excellent example.
Call it mother earth or Holy Mary...I know that men will pause in their madness when voices of women are raised...scripture and history tell me this.
And it becomes as voiced in my estimation... that which is rendered in scripture....
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing
to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without
hypocrisy. James 3: 17(NKJV)
Men don't do that no matter the reason..women do. And history, in general, the great lady I love shows me to be correct.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
What about Jeanne d'Arc? As great a fighting warrior in my estimation as Boudica.
I know that men will pause in their madness when voices of women are raised...scripture and history tell me this.
Yes, very true. Women have always been the stabilizers and influencers of men. As Aristotle says, what difference does it make whether women rule, or the rulers are ruled by women? And Chesterton, Women are the only realists; their whole object in life is to pit their realism against the extravagant, excessive, and occasionally drunken idealism of men.
I don't question your earnest desire to learn more or even come to believe..what I question is my ability to provide you in the way of examples, without ntl, the chauvinistic spirit in which I was trained and yet..god forfend...believe.
Well, I told you, I'm not a believer's material , I've been there before and I know that I'll not be there with or with no examples anyway; but bringing others to believe is not the purpose of this thread, the purpose is just sharing, as much as you want and what you want, at your leisure, without anything expected
Talking about women - here I'm reading the "Little Talks with God" by St. Catherine of Siena,2010, so I'll share a quote or two: "... Whether man desires or not, he cannot help making an act of love...." pg. 18
"... The virtue of discretion is none other than atrue knowledge that the soul should have of itself and of me. And in this knowledge is virtue rooted. Discretion is the only child of self-knowledge, and when it is wedded to charity it produces many virtues, as a tree makes many branches.
This which gives life to this tree of discretion, to its branches of virtue, and to it's roots of self-knowledge is the ground of humility in which it's planted. For humility is the foster-mother if charity, and only through humility can this tree be sustained. Otherwise, the tree could not produce the virtue of discretion.
The root of discretion is a real knowledge of self and of my goodness> By this knowledge the soul immediately, and discreetly, renders to each other one his due, but chiefly to me in rendering praise and glory to my name, and in referring to me all the graces and the gifts that it sees and knows it received from me..."pg. 24.
1. On a dark night, Kindled in love with yearnings -
- oh, happy chance! --
I went forth without being observed, My house being now at rest.
2. In darkness and secure, By the secret ladder, disguised -
- oh, happy chance! --
In darkness and in concealment, My house being now at rest.
3. In the happy night, In secret, when none saw me,
Nor I beheld aught, Without light or guide,
save that which burned in my heart.
4. This light guided me More surely than the light of noonday,
To the place where he (well I knew who!) was awaiting me -
- A place where none appeared.
5. Oh, night that guided me,
Oh, night more lovely than the dawn,
Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover,
Lover transformed in the Beloved!
6. Upon my flowery breast, Kept wholly for himself alone,
There he stayed sleeping, and I caressed him,
And the fanning of the cedars made a breeze.
7. The breeze blew from the turret
As I parted his locks;
With his gentle hand he wounded my neck
And caused all my senses to be suspended.
8. I remained, lost in oblivion;
My face I reclined on the Beloved.
All ceased and I abandoned myself,
Leaving my cares forgotten among the lilies.
It's very beautiful and poetic. I'll post here a part of the prologue:
"...In order to expound and describe this dark night, through which the
soul passes in order to attain to the Divine light of the perfect union
of the love of God, as far as is possible in this life, it would be
necessary to have illumination of knowledge and experience other and far
greater than mine; for this darkness and these trials, both spiritual
and temporal, through which happy souls are wont to pass in order to be
able to attain to this high estate of perfection, are so numerous and so
profound that neither does human knowledge suffice for the
understanding of them, nor experience for the description of them; for
only he that passes this way can understand it, and even he cannot
describe it.
2. Therefore, in order to say a little about this dark night, I shall
trust neither to experience nor to knowledge, since both may fail and
deceive; but, while not omitting to make such use as I can of these two
things, I shall avail myself, in all that, with the Divine favor, I have
to say, or at the least, in that which is most important and dark to
the understanding, of Divine Scripture; for, if we guide ourselves by
this, we shall be unable to stray, since He Who speaks therein is the
Holy Spirit. And if aught I stray, whether through my imperfect
understanding of that which is said in it or of matters uncollected with
it, it is not my intention to depart from the sound sense and doctrine
of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church; for in such a case I submit and
resign myself wholly, not only to her command, but to whatever better
judgment she may pronounce concerning it.
3. To this end I have been moved, not by any possibility that I see in
myself of accomplishing so arduous a task, but by the confidence which I
have in the Lord that He will help me to say something to relieve the
great necessity which is experienced by many souls, who, when they set
out upon the road of virtue, and Our Lord desires to bring them into
this dark night that they may pass through it to Divine union, make no
progress. At times this is because they have no desire to enter it or to
allow themselves to be led into it; at other times, because they
understand not themselves and lack competent and alert directors70 who
will guide them to the summit. And so it is sad to see many souls to
whom God gives both aptitude and favour with which to make progress (and
who, if they would take courage, could attain to this high estate),
remaining in an elementary stage71 of communion with God, for want of
will, or knowledge, or because there is none who will lead them in the
right path or teach them how to get away from these beginnings. ..."
here a link on which the whole work can be read, with a very interesting
foreword that includes biography of the guy, chronology of his life and
analyses of the work. http://www.basilica.org/pages/ebooks...t%20Carmel.pdf
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