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Gothic/Guti invention of boat of skins?

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gothic/Guti invention of boat of skins?
    Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 14:20
Let's first read about an English word from etymonline.com:
 
Keel
"lowest timber of a ship or boat," mid-14c., from O.N. kjölr "keel," from P.Gmc. *keluz, of uncertain origin. Etymologists say this is unconnected with the root of M.Du. kiel "ship," O.E. ceol "ship's prow," O.H.G. kiel, Ger. Kiel "ship," but the two words have influenced each other. This other word is said to be from P.Gmc. *keula, from PIE *geul- "rounded vessel." Keel still is used locally in England and U.S. for "flat-bottomed boat," especially on the Tyne. The verb is 1838, Amer.Eng., from the noun. To keel over (1876) is from the nautical image of a ship turning keel-up.
 
Of course according to rinet, proto-IE *gaul- exactly means "swelling, a round inflated object", so we see the Sanskrit word gula means "ball" and Slavic gula means "bump, wart"
 
In Dezfuli language there is the word Kilek which means "raft", as you read here, the Mesopotamians were clever people and used interesting types of boats. The Mesopotamians used three types of boats: wooden boats with a triangular sail, the turnip or Guffa boat which was shaped like a tub, made of reeds and covered with skin, and the kalakku which was a raft of timbers supported by inflated animal skins.
 
Other than Akkadian Kalakku, there are Old French Carraque (carrack), Old Turkic Qayiqu (caique) and Greenland Eskimo Qayaq (kayak), all of them originally meant "boat of skins".
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 19:38
Don't forget the coracle: a small boat made of stretched animal skins. Caesar encountered them when he invaded England
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 03:07
Originally posted by Nick1986

Don't forget the coracle: a small boat made of stretched animal skins. Caesar encountered them when he invaded England
 
Yes, accouring to etymonline, it could be the Celtic version of this word, Middle Irish curach "boat" is similar to Persian Karaji "rowing boat" -> http://www.wikiled.com/Persian-English-karaji-default.aspx
 
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 21:01

In Wales the coracle is small and light enough for Taffy to carry on his back. These were once a common sight on the River Severn
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 17:13
he could put plenty coal in there an happily shovel away
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 19:31
The longship was apparently based on an earlier oared craft made from skins. As these became harder to procure early shipbuilders moved on to wood. Recently they discovered a pre-Viking ship which was similar in design but propelled entirely by oars
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2011 at 07:02
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Old Turkic Qayiqu (caique)... ....all of them originally meant "boat of skins".


modern Turkish "Kayık" (maybe Cayic-accoding to google translate, it has every similar pronunciation with Turkish)

generally most of c letter, pronunciate as k in turkish

English           Turkish
control            kontrol
congress        kongre

Kayık word(turkish one) origin isn't boat of skin maybe old turkic people did their boat with skin, but word origin isn't about skin

yan(-mak)  burn                yan-ık  thing which was burn

kay(-mak)  slip, skate        kay-ık  thing which is slipped/skated or using for this aim (boat/kayak is like skating on water)

....................................................................

you should also check inuit culture to find inventors of boat of skins.

in inuit language,
kayak: men' vehicle/ boat
umiak: women' vehicle/boat
 


Edited by Ollios - 17-Oct-2011 at 07:09
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2011 at 19:51
Originally posted by Karalem

he could put plenty coal in there an happily shovel away


And his wellies, in case he spots an attractive-looking sheep on the bank
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 01:55
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Old Turkic Qayiqu (caique)... ....all of them originally meant "boat of skins".


modern Turkish "Kayık" (maybe Cayic-accoding to google translate, it has every similar pronunciation with Turkish)

generally most of c letter, pronunciate as k in turkish

English           Turkish
control            kontrol
congress        kongre

Kayık word(turkish one) origin isn't boat of skin maybe old turkic people did their boat with skin, but word origin isn't about skin

yan(-mak)  burn                yan-ık  thing which was burn

kay(-mak)  slip, skate        kay-ık  thing which is slipped/skated or using for this aim (boat/kayak is like skating on water)

....................................................................

you should also check inuit culture to find inventors of boat of skins.

in inuit language,
kayak: men' vehicle/ boat
umiak: women' vehicle/boat
 
 
The important point is that sometimes verbs and other words are created from some old words, for example about the word "history" and the verb "to date" in the Arabic language, the old Arabic word Maurakh (dated) is a loan word from Old Persian Mahraoch (Month-day, dated) and other Arabic words with the root "a-r-kh", like Moarikh (historian), Tarikh "history", ... were created later. I think the Turkish word for history is also tarikh?
 
 
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 07:26
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

 
The important point is that sometimes verbs and other words are created from some old words, for example about the word "history" and the verb "to date" in the Arabic language, the old Arabic word Maurakh (dated) is a loan word from Old Persian Mahraoch (Month-day, dated) and other Arabic words with the root "a-r-kh", like Moarikh (historian), Tarikh "history", ... were created later. I think the Turkish word for history is also tarikh?


Yes, I agree that "sometimes verbs and other words are created from some old words", but I don't believe, word of kayık's akkad origin theory

English  =  Arabic  =  Turkish
History  =  Tarikh   =  Tarih

Turks accept word of tarih's origin as Arabic but not kayık. TDK(Turkish Language Orgasination) accept that it has Turkish origin

and also according to map in below, you can't find any other origin language for 89% of Turkish words without Turkish

 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 09:54
Just one percent of Turkish words have Persian origin?!! After thousands of living alongside Persian-speaking people in the Central Asia and Iran?
 
What is the Turkish word for Color? Renk, from Persian Rang? Black: Siayah from Persian Siah, Bule: Mavi from Persian Avi, Red: Kirmizi from Persian Kermez, ...?
What is the Turkish word for Week? Hafta, from Persian Hafte? Wednesday: Çarşamba from Persian Chaharshanbeh, Thursday: Perşembe from Persian Panjshanbeh,  ...?
What is the Turkish word for Fruit: Meyve from Persian Mive & Vegetable: Sebze from Persian Sabzi? Banana: Muz from Persian Moz, Date: Hurma from Persian Khorma, Cucumber: Hiyar from Persian Khiar, Watermelon: Karpuz from Persian Kharbuza, ...
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 11:28
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


Just one percent of Turkish words have Persian origin?!! After thousands of living alongside Persian-speaking people in the Central Asia and Iran?


Don't get angry Big smile

"The 2005 edition of Güncel Türkçe Sözlük, the official dictionary of the Turkish language published by Turkish Language Association, contains 104,481 words, of which about 86% are Turkish and 14% are of foreign origin" so you can count more then 1370 persian words
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_vocabulary

Don't compare with Azeris or Azeri language with Turkish. Example;

English         Azeri             Turkish
Computer     Kompüter      Bilgisayar

be love create own words Big smile

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


What is the Turkish word for Color? Renk, from Persian Rang? Black: Siayah from Persian Siah, Bule: Mavi from Persian Avi, Red: Kirmizi from Persian Kermez, ...?


Every primary school childern can say Siyah or Mavi are not real Turkish. They are not fit in Turkish Harmony Rules

About red, we use two word for red, turkish one "al", arabic one kırmızı ( كرمزى ?) and also they say it is old sanskrit word means a kind of bug which use for producing red dye

Turkish authorities put the blue-mavi, red-kırmızı in arabic origin part so maybe that's why, we put your persian examples in arabic group.Wink

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


What is the Turkish word for Week? Hafta, from Persian Hafte? Wednesday: Çarşamba from Persian Chaharshanbeh, Thursday: Perşembe from Persian Panjshanbeh,  ...?


If you are glad to hear that, there is no exact Turkish word for days

Monday         Pazartesi   Pazar(persian bazzar)-ertesi(turkish) means the day after "Pazar"
Tuesday        Salı             Arabic or Jewish
Wednesday  Çarşamba   Persian
Thursday       Perşembe   Persian
Friday            Cuma          Arabic
Saturday       Cumartesi   similar with Pazartesi, the day after Cuma
Sunday         Pazar          Persian

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


What is the Turkish word for Fruit: Meyve from Persian Mive & Vegetable: Sebze from Persian Sabzi? Banana: Muz from Persian Moz, Date: Hurma from Persian Khorma, Cucumber: Hiyar from Persian Khiar, Watermelon: Karpuz from Persian Kharbuza, ...


sometimes we use both word(Arabic-Persian and Turkish)
white  -   beyaz  - ak
black   -   siyah   - kara
cucumber  -  hıyar  -  salatalık

You can check Persian part of this viki list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_replaced_loanwords_in_Turkish

many of word start to old. You can't see them in newpaper or TV
like arabic; talebe(student), nazır(minister), lügat(dictionary) for example I know these word but I don't use them when I speak Turkish but I am not sure that will my child know their meaning.

but some words still using example from persian
enemy-düşman-دشمن, lazy-tembel-تنبل but not ser-head-سار  even I don't know before the meaning of ser(head)

You should notice something about Turkish language reform. It isn't just about taking latin alphabet. It is also a war agaist arabic and persian origin words. Maybe my grandmum can know many old words which are persian origin, but not me. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language#Language_reform_and_modern_Turkish



Edited by Ollios - 19-Oct-2011 at 11:30
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 20:28
I see only "Kayak!" Which is, of course, a skinned clothed boat!

ron
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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