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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Topic: Gothic/Guti invention of boat of skins? Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 14:20 |
Keel
"lowest timber of a ship or boat," mid-14c., from O.N. kjölr "keel," from P.Gmc. *keluz, of uncertain origin. Etymologists say this is unconnected with the root of M.Du. kiel "ship," O.E. ceol "ship's prow," O.H.G. kiel, Ger. Kiel "ship," but the two words have influenced each other. This other word is said to be from P.Gmc. *keula, from PIE *geul- "rounded vessel." Keel still is used locally in England and U.S. for "flat-bottomed boat," especially on the Tyne. The verb is 1838, Amer.Eng., from the noun. To keel over (1876) is from the nautical image of a ship turning keel-up.
Of course according to rinet, proto-IE *gaul- exactly means "swelling, a round inflated object", so we see the Sanskrit word gula means "ball" and Slavic gula means "bump, wart"
In Dezfuli language there is the word Kilek which means "raft", as you read here, the Mesopotamians were clever people and used interesting types of boats. The Mesopotamians used three types of boats: wooden boats with a triangular sail, the turnip or Guffa boat which was shaped like a tub, made of reeds and covered with skin, and the kalakku which was a raft of timbers supported by inflated animal skins.
Other than Akkadian Kalakku, there are Old French Carraque (carrack), Old Turkic Qayiqu (caique) and Greenland Eskimo Qayaq (kayak), all of them originally meant "boat of skins".
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Nick1986
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Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 19:38 |
Don't forget the coracle: a small boat made of stretched animal skins. Caesar encountered them when he invaded England
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 03:07 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
Don't forget the coracle: a small boat made of stretched animal skins. Caesar encountered them when he invaded England |
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Nick1986
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Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 21:01 |
In Wales the coracle is small and light enough for Taffy to carry on his back. These were once a common sight on the River Severn
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Karalem
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Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 17:13 |
he could put plenty coal in there an happily shovel away
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Nick1986
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Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 19:31 |
The longship was apparently based on an earlier oared craft made from skins. As these became harder to procure early shipbuilders moved on to wood. Recently they discovered a pre-Viking ship which was similar in design but propelled entirely by oars
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Ollios
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Posted: 17-Oct-2011 at 07:02 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Old Turkic Qayiqu (caique)... ....all of them originally meant "boat of skins". |
modern Turkish "Kayık" (maybe Cayic-accoding to google translate, it has every similar pronunciation with Turkish) generally most of c letter, pronunciate as k in turkish English Turkish control kontrol congress kongre Kayık word(turkish one) origin isn't boat of skin maybe old turkic people did their boat with skin, but word origin isn't about skin yan(-mak) burn yan-ık thing which was burn kay(-mak) slip, skate kay-ık thing which is slipped/skated or using for this aim (boat/kayak is like skating on water) .................................................................... you should also check inuit culture to find inventors of boat of skins. in inuit language, kayak: men' vehicle/ boat umiak: women' vehicle/boat
Edited by Ollios - 17-Oct-2011 at 07:09
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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
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Nick1986
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Posted: 18-Oct-2011 at 19:51 |
Originally posted by Karalem
he could put plenty coal in there an happily shovel away
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And his wellies, in case he spots an attractive-looking sheep on the bank
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 01:55 |
Originally posted by Ollios
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Old Turkic Qayiqu (caique)... ....all of them originally meant "boat of skins". |
modern Turkish "Kayık" (maybe Cayic-accoding to google translate, it has every similar pronunciation with Turkish)
generally most of c letter, pronunciate as k in turkish
English Turkish control kontrol congress kongre
Kayık word(turkish one) origin isn't boat of skin maybe old turkic people did their boat with skin, but word origin isn't about skin
yan(-mak) burn yan-ık thing which was burn
kay(-mak) slip, skate kay-ık thing which is slipped/skated or using for this aim (boat/kayak is like skating on water)
....................................................................
you should also check inuit culture to find inventors of boat of skins.
in inuit language, kayak: men' vehicle/ boat umiak: women' vehicle/boat
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The important point is that sometimes verbs and other words are created from some old words, for example about the word "history" and the verb "to date" in the Arabic language, the old Arabic word Maurakh (dated) is a loan word from Old Persian Mahraoch (Month-day, dated) and other Arabic words with the root "a-r-kh", like Moarikh (historian), Tarikh "history", ... were created later. I think the Turkish word for history is also tarikh?
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Ollios
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Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 07:26 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
The important point is that sometimes verbs and other words are created from some old words, for example about the word "history" and the verb "to date" in the Arabic language, the old Arabic word Maurakh (dated) is a loan word from Old Persian Mahraoch (Month-day, dated) and other Arabic words with the root "a-r-kh", like Moarikh (historian), Tarikh "history", ... were created later. I think the Turkish word for history is also tarikh? |
Yes, I agree that "sometimes verbs and other words are created from some old words", but I don't believe, word of kayık's akkad origin theory English = Arabic = Turkish History = Tarikh = Tarih Turks accept word of tarih's origin as Arabic but not kayık. TDK(Turkish Language Orgasination) accept that it has Turkish origin and also according to map in below, you can't find any other origin language for 89% of Turkish words without Turkish
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 09:54 |
Just one percent of Turkish words have Persian origin?!! After thousands of living alongside Persian-speaking people in the Central Asia and Iran?
What is the Turkish word for Color? Renk, from Persian Rang? Black: Siayah from Persian Siah, Bule: Mavi from Persian Avi, Red: Kirmizi from Persian Kermez, ...? What is the Turkish word for Week? Hafta, from Persian Hafte? Wednesday: Çarşamba from Persian Chaharshanbeh, Thursday: Perşembe from Persian Panjshanbeh, ...? What is the Turkish word for Fruit: Meyve from Persian Mive & Vegetable: Sebze from Persian Sabzi? Banana: Muz from Persian Moz, Date: Hurma from Persian Khorma, Cucumber: Hiyar from Persian Khiar, Watermelon: Karpuz from Persian Kharbuza, ...
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Ollios
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Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 11:28 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Just one percent of Turkish words have Persian origin?!! After thousands of living alongside Persian-speaking people in the Central Asia and Iran?
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Don't get angry
"The 2005 edition of Güncel Türkçe Sözlük, the official dictionary of the Turkish language published by Turkish Language Association, contains 104,481 words, of which about 86% are Turkish and 14% are of foreign origin" so you can count more then 1370 persian words http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_vocabularyDon't compare with Azeris or Azeri language with Turkish. Example; English Azeri Turkish Computer Kompüter Bilgisayar be love create own words
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
What is the Turkish word for Color? Renk, from Persian Rang? Black: Siayah from Persian Siah, Bule: Mavi from Persian Avi, Red: Kirmizi from Persian Kermez, ...?
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Every primary school childern can say Siyah or Mavi are not real Turkish. They are not fit in Turkish Harmony Rules About red, we use two word for red, turkish one "al", arabic one kırmızı ( كرمزى ?) and also they say it is old sanskrit word means a kind of bug which use for producing red dye Turkish authorities put the blue-mavi, red-kırmızı in arabic origin part so maybe that's why, we put your persian examples in arabic group.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
What is the Turkish word for Week? Hafta, from Persian Hafte? Wednesday: Çarşamba from Persian Chaharshanbeh, Thursday: Perşembe from Persian Panjshanbeh, ...?
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If you are glad to hear that, there is no exact Turkish word for days Monday Pazartesi Pazar(persian bazzar)-ertesi(turkish) means the day after "Pazar" Tuesday Salı Arabic or Jewish Wednesday Çarşamba Persian Thursday Perşembe Persian Friday Cuma Arabic Saturday Cumartesi similar with Pazartesi, the day after Cuma Sunday Pazar Persian
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
What is the Turkish word for Fruit: Meyve from Persian Mive & Vegetable: Sebze from Persian Sabzi? Banana: Muz from Persian Moz, Date: Hurma from Persian Khorma, Cucumber: Hiyar from Persian Khiar, Watermelon: Karpuz from Persian Kharbuza, ... |
sometimes we use both word(Arabic-Persian and Turkish) white - beyaz - ak black - siyah - kara cucumber - hıyar - salatalık You can check Persian part of this viki list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_replaced_loanwords_in_Turkishmany of word start to old. You can't see them in newpaper or TV like arabic; talebe(student), nazır(minister), lügat(dictionary) for example I know these word but I don't use them when I speak Turkish but I am not sure that will my child know their meaning. but some words still using example from persian enemy-düşman-دشمن, lazy-tembel-تنبل but not ser-head-سار even I don't know before the meaning of ser(head) You should notice something about Turkish language reform. It isn't just about taking latin alphabet. It is also a war agaist arabic and persian origin words. Maybe my grandmum can know many old words which are persian origin, but not me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language#Language_reform_and_modern_Turkish
Edited by Ollios - 19-Oct-2011 at 11:30
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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
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opuslola
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Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 20:28 |
I see only "Kayak!" Which is, of course, a skinned clothed boat!
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