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fourth human species

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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: fourth human species
    Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 11:39
Scientist believe they hare found a fourth human species.  The first one is ourselves, not because we came first, but we knew about ourselves first.  The second discovery was Neanderthal man.  He is human, but with distinctly different DNA.  The third discovery is call the Hobbit and was found on an island.  The fourth one was found in Siberia.  Note it is DNA that separates these species of humans, and also identifies them as humans.  It now seems there could have been as many species of humans as there are species of monkeys, however it is believed they all come from the same ancestor in Africa. 

http://www.nature.co...ll/464472a.html
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 11:53
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 14:21
Athena, I know that you meant to write above "that the earth circles the sun"!

But, as of now, I certainly do not recognize that there ever existed "several species of humans!" In that case, just what kept these "several species" from existing until the present day?

Being "human" seems to have exhibited the feeling that these "species" were superior to the lower IQ monkeys or apes, that for some reason have matriculated until the present day!

Did the early Africans, and Asians (etc.) hunt down and kill all of them (fellow humans), and spare the apes and monkeys?

Perhaps it was because the "humans" were mostly "naked?"

Just some food for thought!

Holiday blessings to you and yours!

The hell with it, Merry Christmas!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 24-Dec-2010 at 14:23
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 22:47
Originally posted by opuslola


But, as of now, I certainly do not recognize that there ever existed "several species of humans!" In that case, just what kept these "several species" from existing until the present day?
I dont know about several, but the gap between the Neandertals and us keeps getting smaller.  Some scientists now consider Neandertals to be a sub species of humans.  
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2010 at 09:37
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by opuslola


But, as of now, I certainly do not recognize that there ever existed "several species of humans!" In that case, just what kept these "several species" from existing until the present day?
I dont know about several, but the gap between the Neandertals and us keeps getting smaller.  Some scientists now consider Neandertals to be a sub species of humans.  
 
 
 
Now that science has stopped looking at Human evolution in linear terms, the possibility that there were many sub specie of human existing at the same time becomes more apparent.  Most were evolutionary dead ends.  It's also possible that they did not just dissappear, but were assimilated genetically by one or more of the successful species, that includes us.
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 02:16
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 11:37
Originally posted by red clay

 
Now that science has stopped looking at Human evolution in linear terms, the possibility that there were many sub specie of human existing at the same time becomes more apparent.  Most were evolutionary dead ends.  It's also possible that they did not just dissappear, but were assimilated genetically by one or more of the successful species, that includes us.
 
I wonder if this is going to change the Out of Africa theory.   Any arguments that I have seen on forums towards regional evolution have always been rejected as not being supported by science or having implied rascist goals.
 
Who knows, maybe the human story is a mix of regional evolution and Out of Africa:  Homo Sapian sub species evolve regionaly in Africa, Asia and possibly elsewhere.  The ones outside of Africa then get over whelmed / assimilated by the Out of Africa migration.
 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 12:19
All implicate that normal evolution can happens everywhere on Earth...BUT...Last glacial period was around 13000-20000 years before...survival technology, needs civilization at least like ours,even more advanced...In that time , huge human concentration areas exist around equator+- 45 degrees...optimal +- 30 degrees...In this area we have coastal areas of Mediterranean see,parts of Africa,Asia and from other side,  coastal parts in America... We miss ,Atlantis, maybe in this story...But DNA says that average humanoid  comes from Africa...Deviation exists in every theory and have to be investigated of course.


Edited by medenaywe - 29-Dec-2010 at 04:10
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 04:28
This particular case also (I mean the new human species found in Siberia) is not speaking against an african origin of humans.
The carbon dating has dated the remains back to 30000BC.The estimated period of peopling of asia and Europe was from 70000BC to 40000BC.And thye migration from africa is believed to have taken place much before that.
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 05:31

Most of the early human fossils are found in African continent

An international achaeology group discovered human skull fossils about 160,000 years old in Ethiopia, which surprised the achaeological field.

http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2003/8/6/38889.html


Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 29-Dec-2010 at 05:32
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 09:33
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

This particular case also (I mean the new human species found in Siberia) is not speaking against an african origin of humans.
The carbon dating has dated the remains back to 30000BC.The estimated period of peopling of asia and Europe was from 70000BC to 40000BC.And thye migration from africa is believed to have taken place much before that.
 
I see your point about the dates.   The Siberian remains, however, could still be a big blow to "Only out of Africa".   The ancestors of the girl (sub species) in question came from somewhere.
 
Did they....
 
-Come out of Africa as "standard" Homo Sapiens and then evolve into a different sub species? or,
 
-evolve into a sub species of Homo Sapiens locally and independent from Africa and were then later over whelmed / assimilated by the African migration?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 09:43
There are indications that a second wave came out of Africa.  60, 000 ybp.  Mt. Toba erupted approx. 75,000 ybp.  Reducing the gene pool to approx. 1,000 individuals.  The second wave would have been a repopulation of sorts.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 09:52

So perhaps there are three possilbe explanations for the girl in Siberia:

1.)She was part of a group of survivors from the first African wave that later went extinct. 
2.) Her ancestors evolved into a sub species of Homo Sapiens  locally, indepnedent from Africa
3.) Her ancestors came from Africa as "standard" Homo Sapiens and then took a diffent evolutionary path locally
 
But.... I don't think she has DNA similarities with modern humans.  That would seem to eliminate option "3" since one would think that option 3 would still some yield DNA similarities with people today. 


Edited by Cryptic - 29-Dec-2010 at 09:55
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 10:11
Earliest homosapien fossils (recovered from Africa)  are known to date back to 195000 years before present.

The oldest proto-neanderthal traits were found in Europe & parts of Asia from 600000-350000 years before present and complete neanderthal characteristics appeared before 130000years ago.
Neanderthal characteristics disappeared in asia by 50000years ago.

Genetical evidence suggests that the interbreeding between homosapiens and neanderthals took place roughly 80000-50000years ago.This interbreeding might have led to the loss of neanderthal traits.

This siberian fossil indicates the presence  of neanderthal traits in europe 30000years ago.She could have been part of an isolated group which was least affected by the interbreeding with homosapiens and was succesful in protecting some of her neanderthal traits.


Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 29-Dec-2010 at 23:04
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 16:20
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Earliest homosapien fossils (recovered from Africa)  are known to date back to 195000 years before present.

The oldest proto-neanderthal traits were found in Europe & parts of Asia from 600000-350000 years before present and complete neanderthal characteristics appeared before 130000years ago.
Neanderthal characteristics disappeared in asia by 50000years ago.

Genetical evidence suggests that the interbreeding between homosapiens and neanderthals took place roughly 80000-50000years ago.This interbreeding might have led to the loss of neanderthal traits.

This siberian fossil indicates the presence  of neanderthal traits in europe 30000years ago.She could have been part of an isolated group which was least affected by the interbreeding with homosapiens and was succesful in protecting some of her neanderthal traits.


 
 
Some of your time lines are a little strange.  Actually there are 2 sites in Europe that have yielded Neander remains with most classic characteristics in place.  The most recent dating has them at roughly 25,000 ybp.  Genetic evidence, Neander DNA that old[80,000] hasn't been found yet.  The sample that the genome was constructed from was 37,000 .   I would hope that some day they will be able to extract DNA from before Toba.  I think the comparisons will be...........interesting.
 
Plenty more here-    http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/
 
 
  


Edited by red clay - 29-Dec-2010 at 16:25
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 16:33
BTW, New Year's Eve is coming up.  Depending on where you are, you might be able to spot a 5th or 6th.  Big smile
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 17:20
New discoveries have proposed that the indications of the earliest man might well have occured in what is now Israel! Thus it splits the difference between Asia and Africa!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12084496

Edited by opuslola - 29-Dec-2010 at 17:25
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2010 at 10:24
Originally posted by red clay

BTW, New Year's Eve is coming up.  Depending on where you are, you might be able to spot a 5th or 6th.  Big smile
I need to get my cam corder working, then submit an article to Scientific American.  I just ownt mention that on a few occasions many years ago, I would have been mistaken for one of the "others".
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