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The Pantheon and the Black Plague!

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Pantheon and the Black Plague!
    Posted: 17-Dec-2010 at 21:42
The following is from a partially completed treatise concernining numerous things including those mentioned in the subject area!

I would suggest that a real student of the past, strictly follow the sites mentioned, reading each one and following leads provided within each of them, if one considers "truth" as worthy!

So, here goes;

http://www.destination360.com/europe/italy/pantheon

"A precarious moment in the history of Pantheon was the fall of the Roman Empire. But unlike many institutions at the time, the Roman Pantheon managed to escape destruction as Barbarians flooded the city. Historians disagree as to why the conquerors elected to preserve this building while destroying so many others, and thus their motives may forever remain a mystery. Regardless, it was the pivotal moment in Pantheon history."

I propose that the darkness of the "Dark Ages" is more of an artifical creation than reality! As you can read above; "their (the barbarians) motives may forever remain a mystery."

Yes, like a lot of other things, mystery plays a large part in our current understanding of the past.

Just why would the "barbarians" ignore the Pantheon and reportedly destroy or try to destroy everything else in Rome, and indeed in the entire Roman Empire?

Why did they not take all of the bronze?, and why would a Pope do it when it reportedly also stood as a Roman Catholic church, dedicated to the Virgin (Parthenos) Mary? I will go further into this aspect later in this report.

And, why would the Pope take all of the bronze from the ceiling and walls, and not the easist part, IE, the great doors? All mysteries!

That is unless the Pantheon is but an example of the so called "Neo-Platonist" times?, or even later?

From what sources do we arrive at the "certain evidence" that the Pantheon was "conceived by Marcus Agrippa and completed 150 years later by Hadrian?" Is it the incised words found over the entrance that proves it? Or is it found within ancient documents? Or is it mostly found in reportedly "copies" of reportedly ancient documents? Has there ever been any 14C tests done?

Here is what Wikipedia has to say;

"In the aftermath of the Battle of Actium (31 BC), Marcus Agrippa built and dedicated the original Pantheon during his third consulship (27 BC). The form of Agrippa's Pantheon is debated.[5] Augustus's Pantheon was destroyed along with other buildings in a huge fire in 80 AD. Domitian rebuilt the Pantheon, which burned again in 110 AD.[6] Not long after this second fire, construction started again, according to a recent re-evaluation of the bricks dated with manufacturer stamps.[7] Therefore, the design of the building should not be credited to Hadrian or his architects. Instead, the design of the extant building might belong to Trajan's architect Apollodorus of Damascus.[7] The degree to which the decorative scheme should be credited to Hadrian's architects is uncertain. Finished by Hadrian but not claimed as one of his works, it used the text of the original inscription ("M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT", standing for Latin: Marcus Agrippa, Lucii filius, consul tertium fecit translated to "'Marcus Agrippa, son of Lucius, Consul for the third time, built this") on the new facade, a common practice in Hadrian's rebuilding projects all over Rome. How the building was actually used is not known."

Hadrian was surely a very modest emperor, was he not? And these words; "How the building was actually used is not known.", leads us to other questions!

From the above quote it seems that now Trajan has become the builder! Is this another mystery? Some historians believe that Hadrian and Trajan were the same person, and their names merely a version of "Adrian?" The great octagonal "portus" at the mouth of the Tiber river, is also attributed to these men!

This site is very interesting?   http://www.monolithic.com/stories/the-pantheon-rome-126-ad It says; "In truth, no one knows the Pantheon’s exact age." Imagine that!

It would seem that there had to have been built a huge wooden mold within the current dome, to hold up the setting concrete? Or, was a mold made of bronze, set upon the wooden supports, and the concrete spread over the bronze? I am sure some modern engineer has made it his business to explain the construction, but I have not seen it!

It is even thought that the pagan statues stood within it when it was used as a Catholic Church? Were they?, or are they later additions? It seems no one can prove it either way!

The above site http://www.monolithic.com/stories/the-pantheon-rome-126-ad says this;

"In the dome’s construction, the Romans probably used temporary wooden centering on which they layered concentric rings of masonry and concrete.
Through the ages, engineers have theorized about the centering. Some say the Romans used heavy wooden scaffolding, throughout the construction process, that reached from the floor to the oculus.
Others believe that centering was not required for the lower third of the dome, so the Romans used a lighter centering system supported from the dome’s interior, second cornice line.
To create the dome’s oculus, which acts as a compression ring, the Romans built two circles of bipedales, handmade bricks that were 23.4 inches (60 cm) square and 1.56 inches (4 cm) thick. They laid the bipedales edgewise in three vertical courses, then circled the oculus with a bronze cornice.
The oculus was not the only feature that got a bronze treatment. Hadrian had the original roof bronze-tiled and the Latin lettering on the entablature inscribed in bronze. It read: M AGRIPPA L F COS TERTIUM FECIT, which translates to “Built by Marcus Agrippa, the son of Lucius, third counsul.”"

You must really look at the drawing of the Pantheon before it was remodeled in 1833, that can be found above!

Please note that there is no "obelisk" seen in the drawing!

The history of the obelisk can be found here;   http://www.cafetrip.com/feature/rome/pizzadellarotonda/ where you can read that it was only erected;

"In the early 18th century, Pope Clement XI erected the obelisk in the Piazza della Rotunda in front of the Pantheon."

So, the pagan obelisk was added to the piazza sometime after it had become a Roman Catholic Church! Interesting indeed! It must here be noted that there is another obelisk protruding from an Elephant, in an adjoining plaza from where one can also view the Pantheon! This is the Piazza Maria Sopra Minerva! Or; http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-santa-maria-sopra-minerva.htm

If you persue the above site, you might well note that it describes a church called "Santa Maria" (St. Mary the Virgin) and Minerva (or as the site says "over Minerva!" From the above site, which all should read and examine, comes this;

"Just behind the Pantheon is the Piazza della Minerva, whose focal point is an endearing sculpture of a cheery baby elephant carrying a small Egyptian obelisk on his back. It was sculpted by Bernini in 1667. It is said to represent Pope Alexander VII's reign and illustrate the moral that strength should support wisdom.
The Egyptian obelisk is much older - it was found in the ruins of a temple of Isis that once stood nearby. Nothing visible remains of the Temple of Minerva (or Isis) over which the present church was built, but some Roman remains are visible in the crypt."

Later in this report, you might see the significance of the above site!

But now, back to the "Pan-theon!"

Have any tombs been found under the floors? Were there later burials there?

Again, I refer you to this site; http://www.monolithic.com/stories/the-pantheon-rome-126-ad I ask you to point out the Roman lettering (M AGRIPPA L F COS TERTIUM FECIT) that now exists upon this entrance within the entablature!

The explanation for this 17th century rendering of the Pantheon, from the above site, states;

"This drawing by Giovanni Battista Falda dates back to the late 17th century. The Pantheon was defined as a temple to all gods. Pope Urban VIII (1623-1644) added the two bell towers designed by Bernini. They were removed in 1833."

Note, historians tell us that Pope Urban VII,"added the two bell towers (which) were designed by Bernini!" Remember, we were also told above that; " Hadrian had the original roof bronze-tiled and the Latin lettering on the entablature inscribed in bronze." Do you see any inscription upon the entablature in the time of G. B. Falda's drawing?

The answer is "NO!", and the question is "Why Not?" Of course the large scale of the drawing might have made it impossible to show these letters? But, they are, at least, not noticable in the drawing!

We are also told that the beautiful "bell towers", designed by the famous Bernini, were removed by some one, "in 1833!" The obvious question is "why?" By 1833, surely all Roman's were proud of the works of Bernini, so why remove them? Are there any architectural remains extant of these towers? Also notice that almost all photos or drawings of the entablature of the Pantheon are made while looking at the structure's East side! Please notice that there are eight pillars across the front,and three more deep!

Here is the only photo I have found of the little seen West side of the portico;   

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-pantheon-photos/slides/xti_8593   Please notice that there are but two pillars in depth on this side! Is the missing pillar ever shown upon older depicitons of the portico and the entablature?

An explanation has been written concerning some of my questions found here, and these explanations can be found in this on-line book. Please see;

http://books.google.com/books?id=vjKDS_XoPXQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+pantheon&source=bl&ots=60DHo2LRMN&sig=AWo95CsBKOtZ2Kw7f8lmUSi1Cc4&hl=en&ei=DY3hS9z6BJKg9QSKxb2HAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=13&ved=0CDsQ6AEwDA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I would respectfully ask you to read pages 12-24 of the online section of this book! Please pay particular attention to the massive amount of restoration reportedly done to the building, and especially look at the drawing of the Portico, as shown on page 23, where you will see that the pillars were once "five deep! " Although only two or three of them were probably free standing! Notice the drawing is from the same side view from the West side that I mentioned above!

One wonders why this side was seemingly ignored during the numerous restorations? Now see this site!


http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-pantheon


"The Pantheon was maintained and restored by the emperors Septimus Severus (193-211) and Caracalla (211-17). During its two centuries as a functioning temple, statues of gods filled the niches. Animals were sacrificed and burned in the center; the smoke escaped through the only means of light, the oculus.

After Christianity replaced paganism in Rome, the Pantheon was abandoned for a time. Public pagan worship was prohibited in 346 and most pagan temples were closed in 356. Fortunately, a decree of 408 ordered that temples were to be put to new use; thus some have been preserved and were used as secular buildings.

The Pantheon remained unused until the Byzantine emperor Phocas (602-10) gave it to Pope Boniface IV (608-15). In 609 AD, the Pantheon was consecrated as a Christian church." (it is thus assumed that this structure remained, reportedly, unused and not repaired for about 200 or more years!)

"It was the first pagan temple in Rome to be Christianized, although the practice had been common in the East since the 4th century. The church was dedicated to the Virgin Mary and all the martyrs, thus continuing the tradition of a "catch-all" place of worship.

As part of the consecration in 609, an altar was placed in the main apse opposite the entrance, with an icon of the Virgin and Child placed above it. Legend has it that Pope Boniface transferred 'cartloads' of martyrs' relics to the newly consecrated church, but this is unlikely. At that time, the presence of human remains inside a city was an Eastern practice frowned upon in Rome. The earliest documented transfer of relics into Rome is in the 640s (by popes of Eastern origin) but the practice did not really become accepted in Rome until the 8th century. Future excavations may reveal whether the legend is based in fact or not."

It seems there are other mysteries from the above?

Were in fact the "bones" or "relics" of numerous saints or famous personages realy interred here? It seems that so far, no one has looked!

Note that this question was answered above in the "on-line book"!   Again;

"In 667, the Pantheon was stripped of its golden roof tiles and looted of anything of value, but the building was partially restored by Pope Benedict II (684-85). It was subsequently robbed and restored again several times." (we are not told how often it was robbed and restored or by whom? Were the "bones and relics" looted during these times?)

"In the 16th century, Michelangelo came to the Pantheon to study its dome before he began work on the dome of St. Peter's (whose dome is 2 feet smaller), and the Pantheon's roof was stripped of bronze for use in Bernini's baldacchino in St. Peter's. In 1563, the bronze doors were restored."

You might well notice all of the so called "restorations!", if that is what they really described?, even the "bronze doors were restored.", in 1563!

What if they were not restored in the sense of cleaned up and polished, etc., but doors themselves were built and installed?

The above site also says; "Monumental tombs are set into the walls of Pantheon, including that of the artist Raphael (on the left side as you enter). Vittorio Emanuele II, first king of a unified Italy, and his successor, Umberto I, are interred here as well."    

The site even says that the roof was covered in "gold tiles" and the "bronze doors were once covered in gold!"

As well, the site also states; "The portico (porch) is made of 16 monolithic Corinthian columns topped by a pediment. The inscription M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIUM·FECIT means: "Marcus Agrippa, son of Lucius, during his third consulate, built this." Now, does this inscription really describe its initial building, which was reportedly destroyed, or did Hadrian place this inscription upon his rebuilt structure? Another mystery it seems!

Regarding Raphael, Wikipedia says; "Raffaello Sanzio da Urbino[2] (April 6 or March 28, 1483 – April 6, 1520[3]), better known simply as Raphael, was an Italian painter and architect of the High Renaissance, celebrated for the perfection and grace of his paintings and drawings. Together with Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci, he forms the traditional trinity of great masters of that period.[4]" So, he (Raphael) could not have been interred in the Pantheon until after 1520!

Wikipedia also tells us this;

"Since the Renaissance the Pantheon has been used as a tomb. Among those buried there are the painters Raphael and Annibale Carracci, the composer Arcangelo Corelli, and the architect Baldassare Peruzzi. In the 15th century, the Pantheon was adorned with paintings: the best-known is the Annunciation by Melozzo da Forlì. Architects, like Brunelleschi, who used the Pantheon as help when designing the Cathedral of Florence's dome, looked to the Pantheon as inspiration for their works.

Pope Urban VIII (1623 to 1644) ordered the bronze ceiling of the Pantheon's portico melted down. Most of the bronze was used to make bombards for the fortification of Castel Sant'Angelo, with the remaining amount used by the Apostolic Camera for various other works. It is also said that the bronze was used by Bernini in creating his famous baldachin above the high altar of St. Peter's Basilica, but according to at least one expert, the Pope's accounts state that about 90% of the bronze was used for the cannon, and that the bronze for the baldachin came from Venice.[11] This led the Roman satirical figure Pasquino to issue the famous proverb: Quod non fecerunt barbari, fecerunt Barberini ('What the barbarians did not do, the Barberinis [Urban VIII's family name] did')"

Interesting isn't it? Barberinis and "barbarians"? I wonder about the possible confustion of the two words? No wonder the "barbarians" did not destroy it!

And, again, more quotes!

"In 1747, the broad frieze below the dome with its false windows was 'restored,' but bore little resemblance to the original. In the early decades of the twentieth century, a piece of the original, as could be reconstructed from Renaissance drawings and paintings, was recreated in one of the panels."

Note again, another "restoration!" Just how do our historians know with any certainty that the restoration "...bore little resemblance to the original?" Have traces of the "original" been discovered? Or would the 18th century "restoration" which was reportedly based upon "Renaissance" drawings and paintings" have also shown numerous chronological problems? Another mystery it seems!

Wikipedia also says; "The building was originally approached by a flight of steps. The ground level in the surrounding area has risen considerably since antiquity.[4]" The same thing is reported to have happend to St.Pauls cathedral in London, which is considerably younger than the Pantheon! It is much the same for old roads or paths, before paving, which eventually came to be revealed because they exist below the current ground level!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Paul's_Cathedral

"St Paul's Cathedral is the Anglican cathedral on Ludgate Hill in the City of London and the seat of the Bishop of London. The present building dates from the 17th century and is generally reckoned to be London's fifth St Paul's Cathedral, not counting every major medieval reconstruction as a new cathedral. The cathedral sits on the highest point of the City of London, which originated as the Roman trading post of Londinium situated on the River Thames."

If my earlier remarks are correct, then St. Paul's Cathedral, even though built upon "the highest point in the City of London", and only consecrated in "1708" has also sunk, in relation to its environment which was actually raised up!

Considering the numerous centuries from the last rebuilding of the Panthenon, it is a wonder that it is not buried under the rising environment outside its dome! Another mystery!

But, now we must discuss,again, the number of "pillars" found supporting the portico, under the great Chevron!

I promised to further discuss the possible relationship of the Virgin Mary and the Pantheon and here I begin!


http://www.goldenrule.name/Virgin_Athena-Minerva-Parthenon.htm

Key infor to use here; Son of Mary (the maiden) and Athena (the maiden), Athenae reportedly had an affair with "Pan!" Son of Athena represented by a snake! Here we will also discuss the "three Mary's" and the "three Athena's!" We will also discuss the possibility of a combined word, representing "Pan" and "Thenon!" / "Theon" or "Parthe-non, or parth-enon? or parth-eon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erichthonius_of_Athens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphictyon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphictyonic_League

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Theon   Pan, the hunter?

http://www.baby-names-meanings.net/meaning/theon.html

http://nameberry.com/babyname/THEOn the godly light?

http://quickbabynames.com/meaning-of-Theon.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415043022AABAcUQ

http://www.thephiladelphiachurch-stonefort.org/In%20The%20Beginning%20Was%20The%20Word.htm

"four Greek names for God, Theo, Theos, Theon and Theoi."

http://members.tripod.com/~Dark_Moon_School/Pan.html

PAN, the god of pastures, shepherd, etc. see Pan the hunter, above;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes

"Hermes Kriophoros, Hermes, lamb-bearer appears early and later." see Jesus!

"Somewhat later, Proclus' commentary on Plato's Republic describes Hermes as the god of persuasion. Yet later, Neoplatonists viewed Hermes Logios more mystically as origin of a "Hermaic chain" of light and radiance emanating from the divine intellect (nous). This epithet also produced a sculptural type." Again Jesus!

"The constellation Capricornus is traditionally depicted as a sea-goat, a goat with a fish's tail (see "Goatlike" Aigaion called Briareos, one of the Hecatonchires). A myth reported as "Egyptian" in Gaius Julius Hyginus' Poetic Astronomy[15] that would seem to be invented to justify a connection of Pan with Capricorn says that when Aegipan — that is Pan in his goat-god aspect — [14] was attacked by the monster Typhon, he dove into the Nile; the parts above the water remained a goat, but those under the water transformed into a fish."

Again Jesus!

http://www.jungcircle.com/muse/pan.html

http://www.lotrfanfiction.com/viewstory.php?sid=11264

"Pan’s name means “Panic” and also “All”, mortals feared him and believed that he was the Devil because of his appearance. Pan was known for running through the forest playing his Syrinx and making as much possible noise he could to scare humans. (.): "Haliplanktos (Sea-roaming): Thus Pan is called panic because [he is] loud-voiced in the dance, roaring like the sea . . . the sea is noisy . . . Pan is the patron of dances." - Suidas s.v. Haliplanktos. >)"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/panic

"Fear!"

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=panic Date; circa 1600!

Note this from the above site; ""mass terror," c.1600, as an adj. (with fear, terror, etc.), from Fr. panique (15c.), from Gk. panikon, lit. "pertaining to Pan," in sense of "panic, fright" short for panikon deima, from neut. of Panikos "of Pan," the god of woods and fields who was the source of mysterious sounds that caused contagious, groundless fear in herds and crowds, or in people in lonely spots. As a noun, first recorded 1708. Meaning "widespread apprehension about financial matters" is first recorded 1757. The verb is 1827, from the noun. Panicky is first recorded 1869. Panic button in fig. sense is first recorded 1955, the literal sense apparently is from parachuting."

But the above site also has a second meaning available; Meaning no. 2; "type of grass," early 15c., from O.Fr. panic "Italian millet," from L. panicum "kind of millet," from panus "ear of millet, a swelling," of unknown origin."

Was not millet suspected in grain poisioning?

http://www.edenfoods.com/articles/view.php?articles_id=122 Its importance in the Middle Ages!

"Greek historian Herodotus wrote that millet grew so tall in Assyria that he could not give its height for fear that he would not be believed. Early Egyptians learned how to grow millet in the arid Sahara around 3000 BC. The Moors in North Africa grew millet after discovering that it sprouted during the monsoon season and matured quickly. It was grown in southern Arabia as well and in what was once called Gaul (France). The Romans called millet milium and made a polenta-like porridge called puls, that was similar to the Etruscans' porridge pulmentum. The explorer Marco Polo wrote about food under the rule of Genghis Khan, "They have no shortage because they mostly use rice, panic or millet [panic is another species of millet], especially the Tartars and the people of Cathay and Manzi, they do not use bread, but simply boil these three sorts of grain." The Western European emperor Charlemagne ordered millet to be stored and used as a Lenten food. During the Middle Ages millet was the main staple grain in Europe and grown more widely than wheat."

Please note that "one variety" of millet is called "Panic!"

http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/wong/BOT135/LECT12.HTM Could Rye have also been identified as Millet?

Well Erot, and its accompaning problems are also associated with Millet, see;

http://vasatwiki.icrisat.org/index.php/Ergot_diseases_of_pearl_millet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot Note Millet is a potential source of Ergot poisioning! Could it be that during the middle ages, Rye and Millet were a combined form of bread grains?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rye

http://www.bakeinfo.co.nz/school/school_info/types_of_bread.php

"Multigrain and kibbled bread

Mixed or multigrain breads are made from a mixture of wholemeal, white or rye flour and may contain wheatgerm, honey, gluten, non-fat milk solids, cracked and whole grains of wheat and other cereals such as rye, oats, corn, barley, rice millet and triticale.
A wide choice of multigrain breads can be achieved by blending various grains, vegetable pieces, nuts, seeds, fruit and spices.
There are "light" and "heavy" multigrain breads.
"Light" multigrains have an openness similar to white bread, with small kibbled grains, oats or other wheat mixed through the bread.
"Heavy" multigrain breads are characterised by small volume, dense texture and a high grain content.
"Light" breads are similar to white bread in terms of composition, whereas "heavy" breads are similar to or denser than wholemeal bread.
Multigrain bread contains whole grains of different types. Kibbled bread contains kibbled grain which is grain that has been broken into smaller pieces. Many types of grain can be added to the bread including rye, barley, oats, corn, millet, soya, alfalfa and rice. The grain should be soaked in water for several hours before mixing because unsoaked grain in bread is hard enough to break teeth. This bread also needs extra protein (gluten) to make the dough stronger and hold up the extra weight of the grains."

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/cereals.html

Panic-Millet; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/panic

"
pan·ic
2   /ˈpænɪk/ Show Spelled[pan-ik] Show IPA
–noun
1.
Also called panic grass. any grass of the genus Panicum, many species of which bear edible grain.
2.
the grain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1375–1425; late ME < L pānicum a kind of millet
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010."

Time of the Black Death?

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/plague.htm

"The Black Death, 1348"

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/black_death_of_1348_to_1350.htm

Ergotism

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=14928

"
Ergotism: Ergotism could be called a "cereal killer" for its cause, ergot, comes from cereals such as rye and wheat and is quite capable of killing someone. A fungus (Claviceps purpurea) that contaminates rye and wheat produces substances (alkaloids) termed ergotamines.
Ergotamines constrict blood vessels and cause the muscle of the uterus to contract. They have been much used and been very useful for the treatment of migraine. They have also been used and misused as abortifacients (agents of abortion).
In excess, however, ergotamines can cause symptoms such as hallucinations, severe gastrointestinal upset, a type of dry gangrene, and a painful burning sensation in the limbs and extremities.
Chronic ergot poisoning (ergotism) was rife during the Middle Ages due to the consumption of contaminated rye. Because of the burning pain, it was known as "ignis sacer" (holy fire), "ignis infernalis" (hell's fire) and St. Anthony's fire.
For more about this fascinating disease, see our article on St. Anthony's Fire -- Ergotism ."

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=14891 St. Anthony's Fire!

"Ergot contains a chemical that makes the sufferers go berserk and causes gangrene of the hands and feet due to constriction of blood supply to the extremities. If it is not treated (and this was not possible in the Middle Ages), victims had the sensation of being burned at the stake, before their fingers, toes, hands and feet dropped off." and;

"Commissioned by Antonite monks, the altarpiece was created between 1512 and 1516 for the chapel of a hospital at the order's monastery in Isenheim, 15 miles south of Colmar. There, the monks ministered to patients suffering from the painful and often fatal disease, named (as were the monks themselves) for a figure who himself had known great suffering. The man chosen to execute the commission was a German artist and engineer - contemporary of Albrecht Durer's - whose very name long eluded scholars"

The Basilica of St. Anthony of Padua! http://www.basilicadelsanto.org/ing/visita/storia.asp

"
The actual Basilica is largely the result of three different reconstructions, which took place over a period of about 70 years: 1238-1310.
In St. Anthony's time there was the little church Santa Maria Mater Domini, which was then integrated into the Basilica and is now the Chapel of the Black Madonna. Next to this, in 1229, the Friary sprang up, which was probably founded by St. Anthony himself."

You must notice that the time of the Black Death is dated to 1348-1350!

You must notice the dates currently assigned to St. Antonio / Anthony of Padua!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_of_Padua

"Fernando Martins de Bulhões, venerated as Anthony of Padua or Anthony of Lisbon, (c. 1195 [1] – 13 June 1231) is a Portuguese Catholic saint who was born in Lisbon, Portugal where he lived most of his life, to a wealthy family and who died in Padua, Italy."

Thus according to our consensual history, he reportedly lived before the Black Plague, which reportedly started in Europe around 1347-48!

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2010 at 20:52
So! Just which part of the above posting do you have the most problems with?

It cannot be because of the weird combination? Can it?

Thus it has to be because some of you are not able to take the post apart, without ignoring the rest!

But, please consider my original post as a construct of two?

So, go ahead and let me have it!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote p,c,ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 20:27
I actually just want to know where you come up with these ideas to begin with, but if you want me to "let you have it" on a part haw about the idea of Trajan and Hadrian being the same person.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 15:40
Dear Hunter, I would ask you to provide me with "legal evidence" that there really were two different rulers?

Carved busts/figures of them do not count! Nor do volumes of anecdotal remarks!

Regards,
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