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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Legio
    Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 09:32

About the Roman attacking formation, legion, how many men there actually were?

Who commanded what???

How big was the cavalry?

And have got any pics?

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 12:56

The setup of a legion was simple, i'll start from the top and work my way down the ranks, if I'm wrong i'm sure someone will correct me.

Legate- Was incharge of everything about the legion, he made all the orders for the legion.

Camp Prefect- Had alot of knowledge and experience. He was previously Chief Centurion, and should the Legate be absent or dead he would become legate.

Six Tribunes- They served as staff officers.They would be in their early 20s. They would be serving in the army for their first time to gain adminstrative experience before taking up junior posts in civil administrations. A Senior Tribune was different, he would be destined for high political office and eventualy command of a legion.

Sixty Centurions- They were hand picked for leadership and willingness to fight to the death. Their casualty rate far exceeded other ranks. The  most Senior Centurion commanded the First Century of the First Corhort. They commanded centuries of eighty legionaries.

Four Decurions- Commanded the calvary squadron and hoped to be promoted to the command of auxiliary cavalry units. There was 120 men were divided into four squadron lead by one decurion.

Optio- Assisted his centurion with minor command duties. They would be waiting for a opening in the centurionate.

Legionaries- below optio, they signed on for 25 years and were suppose to be Roman citizens. Latter they were taken by local populations if needed and given citizenship. A Legionarie can become a  Optio, and was usually chosen by a centurion based on the legionarie's experience.

Auxiliary- Were lower then the legionaries and were taken by local populations.



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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 13:12

And Auxiliari were the slingers and archers and the light-armored infantry...

and sometimes there were consuls also...

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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 15:40
Originally posted by rider

And Auxiliari were the slingers and archers and the light-armored infantry...

While it is likely some auxilia acted as skirmishers, their infantry was primarily Heavy Infantry, armed in a nearly identical fashion as the standard soldiers. 

Your major difference between an the auxilia and the citizen recruits was that the auxilia seemed to act in smaller, individual units, and generally just didn't have as clear a command structure as the standard troops.

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 16:07
Well consuls would prob take the position that a General would take, and thats commanding more then one Legion. A consul I think gives orders to the genral, and the general gives orders to the Legate, but a consul can command the legions. I'm not to clear as how the consul and general work together.
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 15:43

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Well consuls would prob take the position that a General would take, and thats commanding more then one Legion. A consul I think gives orders to the genral, and the general gives orders to the Legate, but a consul can command the legions. I'm not to clear as how the consul and general work together.

Well, let me correct you, generally, the Legate was what we would call the general.

As for how orders were conveyed...My understanding of it would be that the Consul would simply give orders to the Legates of each legion, much in the same way that a Legate would give orders to the subordinates within his legion.

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 16:15

I think it would be the easiet to descirbe consuls as commanders in chief. Altough there were 2 consuls but one was always staying in Rome and second was in command of the army - if it was necessary.

The rank of legate wasnt professional but political. Usually the commanders in chief (consul or proconsul) was appointing as legates the people from his political faction. I think it was similar with the tribunes (altough i dont remember well, it is possible that tribunes were coming from elections). The only professional officers in the Roman legion were centurions.

It is important to not mix 2 sorts of tribunes. Sometimes in the early-medium republic during the fight of plebeians against patricians were  elected military tribunes with consular powers - instead of consuls (tribuni militium consulari potestate) which were somthing compltelly different than military tribunes - legion officers.



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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 16:30
I have checked it and im sure now that military tribunes were coming from elections so as i said before only real professional officers were the centurions.
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 16:36
Originally posted by Mosquito

I think it would be the easiet to descirbe consuls as commanders in chief. Altough there were 2 consuls but one was always staying in Rome and second was in command of the army - if it was necessary

Actually, this wasn't always the case, as often times, we see both Consuls present in the same comapign.  However(I'm thinking this was the case at Cannae), in a pitched battle, both Consuls would not command at once, instead, they would work out an alternating command structure.

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 16:43
Originally posted by Lannes

Originally posted by Mosquito

I think it would be the easiet to descirbe consuls as commanders in chief. Altough there were 2 consuls but one was always staying in Rome and second was in command of the army - if it was necessary

Actually, this wasn't always the case, as often times, we see both Consuls present in the same comapign.  However(I'm thinking this was the case at Cannae), in a pitched battle, both Consuls would not command at once, instead, they would work out an alternating command structure.

Well, i should have said that it was general rule that 1 consul stay in Rome and second goes with the army. Altough in Roman history exceptions from general rules were often.

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 23:03

Legates i guess you could say were lower ranked Generals who commanded a Legion and they did usually get control through politics and usually worked to get higher in politics.

When the Emporoer was around the ranking order went like this, Emporer, The Imperial General Staff, General( would lead more then one legions in a campaign),Legate, Camp Prefect(Chosen by the highest ranked centurion, was previuosly chief centurion), *Six Tribunes( 1 senior tribune, 5 staff tribunes),*Chief Centurion( commander of the first corhort, 9 Senior Centurions, Centurion(commanded 80 men), Optio(assists the centurion)

*-the star meeans that they are about the same rank, i'd guess the senior tribune is higher then the chief centurion but i'm not sure. The rest are in order of rank by what i know.

There should be about 60 centurions all together

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 04:33

wouldnt praefectum preatorianii be second commander...

and decurios...

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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 06:27
Originally posted by rider

wouldnt praefectum preatorianii be second commander...

and decurios...

Yes, in the Praetorian Guard, that would be the second man in charge. 

Generally the second in command is referred to as the Praefectus Castrorum.

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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 12:36
I thought the commanders of legions were called as Legatus, not Legate.


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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 15:23

Originally posted by Dari

I thought the commanders of legions were called as Legatus, not Legate.

Legate is the English translation of.  That's also why the Preafectus Castrorum is often just called the prefect.



Edited by Lannes
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