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Difference between Indians and Pakistanis

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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Difference between Indians and Pakistanis
    Posted: 14-Oct-2012 at 16:46
Originally posted by Nick1986

What about Persians from Iran? It would explain the fair skin of many Afghans and Pakistanis


Not really. Persians on average are not white and neither are Afghans or Pakistanis. Indo-European genetic influence in Iran is actually quite limited.

Persians do though have a lot more body hair on average than their neighbors and if I'm not mistaken Afghans too.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2012 at 08:33
I know Iranians and Pakistanis with fair skin and blond hair. Some of them look more like Slavs than Arabs
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2012 at 16:55
^^ Actually there's a lot of Arabs who are white, even on a higher scale than most Iranians and Pakistanis I would state.

Especially Arabs from the Mediterranean countries. Many of them look Nordic. Arabs from the Gulf countries are darker but a lot do look like south Europeans do to sharing common Mesopotamian ancestry with the people of the Mediterranean.

 But Arabs from Jordan, Syria, Northern Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and parts of Egypt are overall much fairer than Iranians, Pakistanis and Turks.

 Some of it is also due to the British crusaders. I lived in the Middle East for 2 years and personally saw Arabs from these countries. They looked more like Germans than other peoples of the  Middle East.

problem is today 'Arab' is a linguistic group rather than an ethnic group.


Edited by PakistaniShield - 15-Oct-2012 at 16:57
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2012 at 10:28
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

^^ Actually there's a lot of Arabs who are white, even on a higher scale than most Iranians and Pakistanis I would state.

Especially Arabs from the Mediterranean countries. Many of them look Nordic. Arabs from the Gulf countries are darker but a lot do look like south Europeans do to sharing common Mesopotamian ancestry with the people of the Mediterranean.

 But Arabs from Jordan, Syria, Northern Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and parts of Egypt are overall much fairer than Iranians, Pakistanis and Turks.

 Some of it is also due to the British crusaders. I lived in the Middle East for 2 years and personally saw Arabs from these countries. They looked more like Germans than other peoples of the  Middle East.

problem is today 'Arab' is a linguistic group rather than an ethnic group.
Crusaders is a possibility. I imagine many stayed, married local women and raised their children Muslim
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2012 at 23:24
^^ Actually both since a huge percentage of Arabs from the Mediterranean are Christian. i was told Lebanon was majority Christian till about the 80s.  
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2012 at 09:25
?
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

^^ Actually both since a huge percentage of Arabs from the Mediterranean are Christian. i was told Lebanon was majority Christian till about the 80s.  

That's interesting. Was it a case of foced conversion by the government, or were the Christians outnumbered by Muslim immigrants?
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2012 at 16:03
That I wouldn't know. What I do know is majority of Lebanese live outside the country and conversions do take place most likely due to marriages so those might be the main factors.

However the Mediterranean Arab countries are still the most balanced Muslim countries in terms of treatment towards non-Muslims. I know the West likes to project Turkey as the most moderate Muslim country but it's not really the case.

Countries like Jordan , Lebanon, Syria despite their rough history treat their non-Muslim minorities with great tolerance even till today. 
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 22:14
Northern pakistanis are very light skinned, the southern ones in (sindh) are actually pretty dark, some of them could be dark as Tamils. SO pakistan has a range from very light skinned to very dark, most average pakistanis are in the middle which is basically (light brown)
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2013 at 10:36

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2013 at 10:38
 


Edited by balochii - 24-Jan-2013 at 10:42
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2013 at 14:37
Originally posted by balochii

Northern pakistanis are very light skinned, the southern ones in (sindh) are actually pretty dark, some of them could be dark as Tamils. SO pakistan has a range from very light skinned to very dark, most average pakistanis are in the middle which is basically (light brown)


A lot of Punjabis look like that too, particularly Indian Punjabis. Also in Balochistan you'll find pockets of such people as you described.
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2013 at 17:57
Indian punjabis (sikhs) are more norindid, however their skin colour usually tends to be darker, their women folks are much darker for some reason

in Pakistani punjab the men are more darker yet the women seem to be light skinned

Also Punjabis are not one group, northern punjabis around Islamabad/Rawalpindi, also if you add the Hindko areas, they are the lighthest among indic groups, but that is probably because they mixed with their neighbors like pashtuns or Kashmiries over the centuries
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2013 at 10:56
I met a Hindko girl yesterday, she lived in Islamabad, and she is the most fairest pakistani girl I have ever seen, She could easily fit in Europe, a lot of those people up north in Pakistan are very fair skinned and very beautiful!
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2013 at 15:41
Originally posted by balochii

I met a Hindko girl yesterday, she lived in Islamabad, and she is the most fairest pakistani girl I have ever seen, She could easily fit in Europe, a lot of those people up north in Pakistan are very fair skinned and very beautiful!


Agreed. They are.

northern Punjabis are generally fairer and as you pointed out Punjabis are more of a linguistic group nowadays than an ethnic group. The darker skinned eastern Punjabis are claimed to be rajesthanis who adopted Punjabi language and culture.
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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 07:46
Originally posted by Vajra

Originally posted by balochii

^ how is that propoganda? pakistanis are lighter then most indians, we already know this

but MOST Pakistanis however are not. like Punjabis and Sindhi's and Mohajirs and you cant tell difference between Indians and Pakistanis by their physical features VAST majority of them dont look different.

This video only demonstrates how picking and choosing each image to suit their political propaganda. [ Showing only lighter Pakistanis and how its society is more modern than their Indian Neighbors etc etc ] 

Its impossible to make out who is Pakistani and who is Indian. There is in a huge South Asian population in Jackson Height, Queens, NYC when you go there it's impossible to make out.

There is not "real" difference between Indians and Pakistanis. 

[source - A charming Baloch Girl by Rumana Husain - Flickr] 

Would you say this girl looks Balochi or Tamil? LOL

I am an Indian and therefore hyperconscious of minute differences in colour and appearance.

Despite that, when I was in UK I found it impossible to say whether a person was North Indian or Pakistani - or even South Indian if he had somewhat North Indianish features.

If person had typical South Indian features and appearance, it was impossible to differentiate from Sri Lankan.

The essential sameness was striking - and the marked difference of South Asians from the Anglo Saxons was even more striking.

Much of the thread seems to be prejudice and stereotypes being rehashed rather than factual presentation. Much of it also seems to be wishful thinking from both Indians and Pakistanis, who have become ingrained with the prejudices of many generations.

RE: Out of India theories - they are obviously wrong and thoroughly discredited, although right wing political formations in India still spout what is historically incorrect (they seem to have become urban legend on the internet).

The obvious is usually right. Aryans invaded india and the reverse is simply ludicrous - like saying crows are white and milk is black.

I would say - look wise - Pathans are closer to Iranians but still have some local South Asian blood and the majority (80%) would pass for Punjabi. So they would not be considered a "gora" except by darker people - maybe 2% would have features and colour which would pass for a European and some 20% would pass for Iranian.

Iranians themselves would be a mix of various mesopotamian and Iranian peoples. So some 5-10% would pass for European and another 5-10% would pass for a Punjabi and the rest would look inbetween- basically look Iranian.

The same in Punjab. The Punjabis near Indus would again be closer to the Pathans, but more local blood. So maybe 0.2% would pass for a European, more if they bleached their hair blonde. Some 40% would pass for Pathan. Rest 60% would pass for a north India.

So it is a continuous gradation from the NWFP to the extreme tip of tamil nadu where maybe 0.0001% would pass for a European and 1% would pass for an Afghan etc etc.

What can the DNA studies tell us except the obvious - that Indians are a mix of local and basically Iranic people in various percentages? I say basically Iranic because except for the Mongols and perhaps the Huns (and the last is not sure) - all the other people who came i.e. Aryans, (Greeks are an exception also), PArthians, Scythians, Kushans, Ghaznavids, Mughals - they were all essentially from the East of the Caspian and Indo Iranian speakers and probaby of the same ancestral stock

We dont need genetic studies to tell us what is obvious and established historical fact.

Mixing of local and Indo Iranian blood was probably quite thorough in North India and Punjab. There have been many Indian Empires which either went west or pushed people west (Mauryan, Gupta, Rajputs, Sultanate armies after mixing up in India and went west, Mughal Armies which after mixing up in India went West, Marathas, Sikhs and the partition) - which has ensured that there is not much genetic difference between North Indian and Pakistani.

But some things require re-iteration. The Rig Vedic people did not stay put in NWFP. They moved on into North India and spread thoughout.

Pathans have Indo European blood derived from later Central Asian invasions, probably maximum from Parthians and Kushans.

Pathans are almost definitely not derived from the original Rig Vedic people, but from later invaders. But since the later invaders came from essentially the same area from where the Aryans were derived i.e parthia, they would be genetically similar.

So further south and East you go, more pure would be the Rig Vedic blood and genes. More northwest you go, more would be later invaders blood. The areas of Punjab, UP, Rajasthan and Gujarat have a lot of PArthian, Scythian, Kushan and Hun blood in them in addition to Aryan. Whereas the Bihar, Orissa, MAdhya Pradesh would yield up central asian blood which is mainly of Rig Vedic origin rather than later invasions.

Not that it makes much difference - because even within 100 years, gene pools pretty much totally mix up. In 3000 years, it would be very thorough mixture indeed.

Re: Culture. From whatever I have seen, Indians Hindus and Pakistani Muslims have absolutely nothing in common. Indian muslims seem more intermediate in nature but closer to Pakistanis than Hindu Indians. Most of the differences are attributable to the religion.

Within India, there is probably nothing in common between the Muslims and the Hindu as far as culture and way of life is considered. 

Unless you are considering negative cultural practices like corruption, telling lies, violence, criminal behaviour, fraud, hatred, inflammatory speeches, intolerance, discrimination on the basis of sex and a hundred other things - in which there seems to be a lot of commonalities between Indian Hindus and Indian Muslims. In negatives we (Indians) are all the same. I wont speak for Pakistanis.

On my one short visit to Pakistan I found the place (Islamabad) much richer and cleaner than Delhi. It definitely felt like a foreign country though and all the cars were Western imports. The local language (seemed like a combination of Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi and some incomprehensible elements) was mostly not comprehensible - and this was the main reason for the place feeling foreign - I could not communicate with the man on the street. The moment I spoke in Hindi, I was recognised as Indian - but otherwise nobody gave me a second look - I totally blended in.  Most people spoke English similar to Indians in accent.

 
People were quite friendly and I did not feel intimidated (although I was quite apprehensive before going there). 

It was a more familiar and easier place than Dubai, Kuwait, Muscat and Tehran - all of which felt quite alien except Kuwait because the place was full of Indians (and I suppose Pakistanis, I couldnt make out.

Kabul (another place I have visited) also felt like a poor Indian city and the people seemed quite like Pahadis to me (except much much taller and thinner).

And so I have always felt that the difference between India (North India) and Pakistan is mainly religion and nothing else


Edited by Venkytalks - 15-Feb-2013 at 08:50
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 11:58
^ like I said in the other thread, Pashtuns are very different from Indians, you can not compare the two. as for punjabis on both sides, most are similar looking, however in Pakistani punjab there are also mixed people of pashtun/punjabi descent, they look different from average punjabi or indians
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  Quote Muhammad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2014 at 17:49
Punjabis and Sindhis are much closer to European than they are closer to Australoid. I'm not saying they don't have Australoid in them but very minimum 20-25%. Majority of Balochs are no different to Sindhis and Punjabis as they are mixed with Brahui only a small proportion of Balochs are similar to Whites/Pashtuns. Most Pakistani Americans are literally Muhajirs who are basically Indian very few authentic Pakistanis reside in the States which would explain why every Pakistani restaurant also labels Indian. Pakistan is made up by three nationalities of course Sindhis and Punjabis are Indian as for North however Baloch people are Iranian and Pashtuns are Afghan. As far as for where ancestry is concerned keep in mind the Indus Valley has been conquered so many times by the Caucasians first by the Aryans then the Greeks and then finally the Turks so of course Pakistanis are mixed with these groups of Mlecchas. The original people of the Indian sub continent spreading all the way to West Asia were Austro Asiatic so of course around thousands of years later the Australoids may have come and interbred with those Mongols and replaced them which would explain why the Indus priest king looked mixed (Blasian) and not exactly Dravidian.  
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  Quote Andrew Roosevelt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2015 at 03:45
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Pakistanis are not a product of Arabs, Turks or Persians. That's just a myth the Islamists have pushed upon the confused Pakistani population.

Pakistanis are a hybrid race of white Europid Indo-Iranic tribes  merging with dark-skinned native Indus Valley people.

skin color doesn't determine one's race, it's the genetics. It would be better if you post some genetic maps instead. Skin pigmentation won't give you much info.

I have haplogroup maps if you want


hybrid race? 21st Century is on... And we are still to change..

Color-Race-Religion matters little, if one takes pride in his/her nationality that is entirely different from the rest.
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  Quote Andrew Roosevelt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2015 at 03:50
Originally posted by chandergupta

hi i think we indians should not be compared with Pakistanis.They are a mixture of arabs,persian,mongols,turks,central asians,afghans,and punjabis while we indians do not look like them.you only need two eyes to come up to this conclusion that Pakistanis and Indians are different genetically.
We indians are proud of our colour and history.
peace.


I am not sure whether you are an Indian or not, but if you so, I feel it quite hard to digest. I am an Indian, (Even though both my father and Mother are English (by Birth). My grand father was working in British India, back then as a Collector. Taken a love for this country and its culture, my grandpa choose to stay here (A good Decision) and hence we became Indians.

I am purely proud of this nation's culture and heritage, and even more glad that I am now a part of it.

Yet speaking of Pakistanis as a low or ourselves as high is not good (more so on race based) its almost a stupidity. They are not even our cousins, but blood brothers, I personally consider myself as an Indian and consider Pakistanis as brothers (though I am not a stupid who dreams of India-Pakistan unity, staying in peace is more than enough for both sides).
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