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Dutch Plan in Kharg Island
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dutch Plan in Kharg Island
    Posted: 22-Nov-2009 at 07:26

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Geography/persian.gulf/kharg_island.htm:

Baron Tiddo Frederik van Kniphausen, devised a plan to turn Kharg into a free port (i.e. open to all nationalities), securing perpetual ownership of the island from Mir Nasáir Waqâ÷i, the Arab ruler of Bandar Rig, in return for a present of 2000 rupees (Perry, 1973, p. 84-85). Houses and a fort (named Mosselsteyn, after Kniphausen's superior in Batavia, VOC Governor General Jacob Mossel), situated in the northeast corner of the island (shown clearly on the map in Stiffe, 1898, p. 180), were constructed by Kniphausen, who arrived with three ships (the Fortuyn, Getrouwigheid, and Batavier) during the winter of 1753-4. German Catholic mercenaries were used to garrison the fort and Armenian traders were soon busy in Kharg, while the completion of a church in 1757 led to the arrival of a Carmelite priest, Father Angel Felix, ministering to what was then the largest Catholic community in Persia (Perry, 1973, p. 87). The Roman Catholic Bishop of Isfahan even moved his residence from Isfahan to Kharg at this time (Slot, 1993, p. 358).

What do you think to be the real purpose of the Dutch occupation of Kharg island? to turn Kharg into a free port? or to spread Roman Catholic Christianity? or that is just another Dutch colonial occupation?



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 22-Nov-2009 at 07:27
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2009 at 15:57
Sorry to say it but its all about money. Europeans were always claiming that they do somthing for their christian faith but usually if not always, it was just an excuse. It would'nt look well if they were claiming that they do somthing just for money and faith always seem to be a "higher" or "just" reason. Remember that even in Europe when one european state was going to make war with other european state, was always looking for some excuse which usually was faith or justice or peace but never greed and power.
 
Think about partitions of Poland in the end of 18th century. The biggest european state was simply divided by its neighbours in space of about 25 years. And those who did it, Russia, Austria and Prussia never said that are doing it because are greedy but invented lots of reasons and faith was also one of them. Prussians wanted to help lutherans in Poland who as they claimed were persecuated by catholics. Russia wanted to help orthodox christians. And Austria - a catholic country wanted to save Polish catholics from being persecuated by Prussian lutherans and Russian orthodox. Affcourse all those state did it also to save peace because - as they claimed - exitance of weak and anarchic country in the middle of Europe was very dangerous to them all.
 
I have noticed many times that people of muslim faith think that Europeans were often doing somthing for religious reasons. The truth is that Europeans would never spent a penny for their religion. Even crusades were made for different reasons than religion. Remember that one of them ended in sacking christian Constantinopole...


Edited by Mosquito - 22-Nov-2009 at 16:00
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2009 at 23:57
I agree with the above poster. The Dutch were mostly interested in making money, spreading Christianity was secondary.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 07:56
What is most amazing was the ability of a small nation (Holland) to be able to project their power and trading abilities over such a large part of the world. Their bases literally encompassed the world!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 09:53
Kharg is just a small island, I don't think any valuable thing can be found there, the most important thing about Kharg island can be just its strategic location, so there could be a military purpose for the occupation of this island.
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 12:05
Free port on the island in the strategic place, if you have good fleet to defend it, the best place for making money. And the Dutch had good fleet....
 
And you dont need valuables there.... the merchants will bring them


Edited by Mosquito - 23-Nov-2009 at 12:07
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 15:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Kharg is just a small island, I don't think any valuable thing can be found there, the most important thing about Kharg island can be just its strategic location, so there could be a military purpose for the occupation of this island.


Kharg Island is highly strategic as a trading outpost, as is Kish, Bahrain, etc...

But you are right, if the Dutch were able to be well established there, they could certainly use it for military purposes.

But the Dutch were never about that, they were mostly about making money, they were never very good at conquering and holding large chunks of territory. The Dutch did not have the resources.
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 16:06
On the other hand, another european country could invade the island and take it from the Dutch. Like did the British with many French and Dutch colonies.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 17:33
Maybe one must figure out just what product was the most profitible?, and just what the costs were to ship it safely overland as opposed to via ship?
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 17:34
The Portugese actually were successful in occupy Bahrain and Hormuz but the Iranian army was able to kick them out of the Persian Gulf.
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 04:14
I guess that most profitable would be gold and jewels. But I have really no idea what goods had arabian penisula for trade that time. Africa was giving slaves and ivory, the port on Zanzibar island was the greatest trading center of Africa. I dont know if the port on the Kharg island could have become as important and rich trading center as Zanzibar.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 09:33
Originally posted by Mosquito

I guess that most profitable would be gold and jewels. But I have really no idea what goods had arabian penisula for trade that time. Africa was giving slaves and ivory, the port on Zanzibar island was the greatest trading center of Africa. I dont know if the port on the Kharg island could have become as important and rich trading center as Zanzibar.


Well, considering Kharg Islands close proximity to Iran and the (then) Ottoman Empire, the purpose of the Island was probably to trade with Persia and the Ottoman Empire, as well as the Caucasus and probably Central Asia.

With regards to Qeshm, Hormuz, and Bahrain, the portugese not only intended to use them for trade between the empires of the Middle East, but also wanted to use them as a stopping off point for trade between China and India to Europe.

But I think you are right, I dont believe the Arabian peninsula was much of a factor for European colonization at that time.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 16:23
Dear Simba, you wrote; " I dont believe the Arabian peninsula was much of a factor for European colonization at that time."

Sir, You must be correct, since I believe the Arabian peninsula was never conquered by anyone other than Arabs? Even then, they probably only held small coastal strips!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 18:27
Yes, even the Ottomans were simply content with controlling Mecca and Medina, the rest of the Arabian peninsula is just desert.
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