Origin Of The Hyksos

Ships - with oars and evidently with sails - was spread by the Minoans.
The oldest chariots found - so far - seem to be from the Kurgan area.

Originally posted by Jallaludin Akbar Originally posted by AksumVanguard   Well at least the invented the water wheel lol. Like I said even after it became in use the it could not be used as much as it was Mesopotamia because wheels  were sluggish on the arid terrain. The Egyptians used the Nile and canals that ran across the Nile for transportation Yes well 5,000+ years ago Mesopotamia was not thought to be arid terrain..in fact it was a lush grassland that was ideal for the developement of early human civilization. In regards to the wheel..I beleive the first practical uses of it where in pottery.

Exactly we know it was lush terrain, this is why the argument of saying the Mesopotamian cities were built out of scarcity and lack of agriculture is very much false. There's a reason why they call it the FERTILE CRESCENT,and with all the populous from different lands migrating at huge rate it is only natural for these populations to set up ever growing  communities and large scale cities.

Where as Egypt has alot of famine through their history but yet they maintained a vast amount food reserves at times. They Sumerian Cuneiform has gone though stages of refashioning to make the writing system better.Where as the Early Dynastic Hieroglyphs style of writing has not been changed at all.

We also ignore great canal system which was great for travel and irragation.Where as the Sumerians have had alot of trial and error with some of their construction projects ,look how many time the ziggarut has been built over. It is clear to note that at the beggining of unification of Upper and Lower Egypt and the beggining of dynastic period their is a unexplained sudden burst of archietctual accomplishments such as the Aswan Dam.





Edited by AksumVanguard - 12-Feb-2009 at 14:21

Minoans? Canoes? 

Boreasi is quite right that the Minoans were extremely advanced in shipbuilding etc. Their fleets dominated the Meditteranean a thousand years and more before the Phoenicians even became a seafaring peoples.

I don't want to get too off-topic here, so I'll just say this: the Minoans aren't referred to as a thalossocracy because they had 'canoes'!

Originally posted by AksumVanguard I just gave you proof, that advanced ship building and advanced sea travel were made by the Egyptians I didn't say they invented sea travel. Let me take back saying the traveled in canoes maybe they traveld in Longships or something similiar I don't know  but their maritime ability was not as advanced as the Egyptians in 3000 bce.

I am from Crete (my village was actually built on a Minoan cemetery) and there is another village excavated that dates around 3,000bC. I can promise you that these people didn't sprout in Crete and they certainly wouldn't reach it without some form of advanced ship

Some 4.200 years ago,  after the Aryan invasion to India, there was civil unest that developed into a civil war in India. The stories of the Mahabaratha is the first known description of weapons made for manslaugther, as well as the first reord of actual warfare.

The Aryan off-spring Krisna took a central part in the calamities, persuading Anjuna to us his bow for killing his and Krisnas political oponents - i.e. the old royals - to enforce the inroduction of a "new age". In the war that followed Krisna creates an arillery unit, were he himself steer two oxes that pulls a wagon - from which Anjuna can shoot his arrows effectively.  It mighthave been the loosers of this war that had to flee the Indian area - to the west.

Less than a century later a similar ox-barrow with spear-throwing invaders arrives in the Mesopotian realm. These Indo-Aryans can be seen in the "Standard of Ur" - that is depictng the "Asian soldiers" on wheels - during their invasion, sack and burning of the city of Ur. 
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classicalarch/images1/UrStand2700.jpg

The easy success seem to have geared their ambition and soon the same people continue their specific form of colonization nort- and west-wards - were new cities were besiegd, attacked and conquered. A trademark of the new rulers was to burn or tear down the monumental  buildings of the conquered cities and build a new, fortified ones - at the highest hill of the cities.  http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668&sectionid=351020108 

By 3.700 they had overrun the Sumerian province and created a new kingdom of Sumeria - with the conquered Babylon as the new capitol.  Later Persegard gets blasted and Persepolis get to be the new capitol - and the long march towards the Mediterranean, the Hittites and the Egyptians could start. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668&sectionid=351020108

3.600 years ago the indo-aryan ship-trade had also advanced far west - along the coast as well as inland of Felix Arabia, it reaching Ertreya and Egypt. By this time they start to learn how to use a more advanced "cavallery" - of horses and chariots. (3.200 they advance to crush the Hittites and occupy the northern part of the Levant.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

3.500 the (proto-)Phonecians gets to establish trade-routes from India and the Persia bay, along the Arabian coast to the main-routes to the Erytrean Sea, the Akka bay and Egyptian (Red) Sea. As the Hyskos arrived in Egypt the Phoencans were able to organize an attack on Egypt - together with their cousins of the land-road, called "Asian soldiers". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

Combining smart diplomacy and trade with infiltration and political play they were finally able to go for the regime ofthe Nile delta  around 3.500 BP. In Egyptian they were called "heqa khasewet", i.e. "foreign rulers" - and their cavalery of charioteers called "haibrw".
 
Co-ordinating attacks from the Red Sea and the Levant simultaniousy with the land-army with chariots - the Hyksos were able to roll into Egypt and conquer the temples of Heliopolis.  Gaining controll over all the land east of the Nile they instigated their own dynasty of pharaoes - with Avaris as they capitol.

The escaping Egyptians survived to "regroup" in "Upper Egypt" forming a new capitol in Thebe - untill they were strong enough to strike back and effectively figth the intruders.
According to the stela in Medinet Habu the cavalerists of the Hyksos, the Hebrw, escaped Canaan by advancing over the Sinai dessrt and back to their former neighbours in the Levant. Here they managed to exterminate the Medianites in a veritable genocide. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031:1-18;&version=9;

After this divine effort the remaining Hyksos (i.e. Hebrew) were able to get join in a political union with their cousin Phonecians, from which the retaliation on Egypt were planned - as known in the attack of the Sea People, which is a final phase of the Troyan wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples

As the Asyrians came to rule the old Sumer and Arabia and the Hebrews ruled the Levant - they controlled all the land-routes between the Med and India/China. With the control of the Red Sea, Suez, Tyre and Carthagethe the Phoenicians would solemnly rule the Mediteranean trade to the east/south-east, from where the famous ivory, clothes, colors, silk and spices would arrive.  The sea-routes to Erytreia or Akaba - and then along the coast of Felix Arabia to Cambay and Punt - were the key-route to the Asian trade-cultures, that included India, Myanmar and China.

The relationship between the first wars between the Indo-Aryans and the greek Sumerians - and the successive spread of war - was difficult to clearify before modern archaology were able to weigh in the evidences and the dates of the events that spread from the Pesian Bay to the Med during the 2. millenium BC.

As the conquest advanced the size of the armies grew from a few thousand to hundred of thousands - leading to the destructon of the old cities of the Middle East.  As the "Burnt cities" have been excavated and dated  (from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean) it has been possible to deduct a time-line of events, that may explain the how cultural extremity of warfare, devastation and genocide - came to search out and destroy most of the old civilisations between India to Spain in less than a millenia.
http://www.nabataea.net/hyksos.html

During the 1. millenia BC it spreads further into the mainlands of Anatoilia, Egypt, Libya, Greece, Italy and Spain - until the time of Alexander.  Later the Romans picked up the "Alexandrian herritage" - as they learned to defend themselves effectily. Successfully doing so the plebeian generals advanced to political power, where they developed the policy to turn Rme into a metropois for a world wide empire. After the re-conquest of (punic) Libya they advanced on Spain, Geece, the Levant and Egypt - before the resources ran out. Solving it radically the marshall Caesar turned on Romes oldest (peaceful) allies - as he marched into the untouched resources of northern Europe - to "as a savage wolf drink the Gallic blood" (Cato).

Thus the lawful defenders had turned criminal themselves and the history of agression, manslaughter and conquest. Idolizing the success of brute strength, predatory behaviour and millitary technoogy - manipulation, stigmatization and warfare became "crimeless" and comme il faut as a political tools.

Thus the ideas and means of Maabaratha had spread as a wildfire - to reach the outermost realms of the known world. Thus the origin and history of the intruding Hyksos, along with their alied Phoenicians, can actually be followed back to India. Paradoxically they seem to have left alongside the rather peaceful Gypsies - close to 4.000 years ago - as a result of the civil wars between the Indo-Aryans...




Edited by Boreasi - 14-Feb-2009 at 23:00

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Appendix Four

 

Hyksos	Edomites
Empire existed about 300 to 200 years before Exodus.	Formed a great kingdom about 300 - 200 years before the Exodus
Empire took in southern fringe of Canaan and likely reached Euphrates	Edomite kingdom took in southern fringes of Canaan and reached Euphrates at Rehoboth.
Were mainly Semites	Were mainly Semites
Included a strong Hurri element	Included a strong Horite element
May have been connected with the Hittites	Connected with Hittites
Had horses and used horses in warfare	Had horses and describe use of horse in battle
Were possibly shepherds and nomads	Edomites were shepherds and were nomadic in origin
Linked with Arabians	Inter-related with Arabians
Linked with Canaanites	Inter-related with Canaanites
Called Barbarians, ie of a lower material standard to Egyptians	Did not posses a settled, cultural life like the Egyptians
Capital city (Avaris) not in their own country	Capital cities often not in their own country
Worshiped Sutekh (Seth) or Baal	Drifted to Baal worship

       

Originally posted by Boreasi Some 4.200 years ago,  after the Aryan invasion to India, there was civil unest that developed into a civil war in India. The stories of the Mahabaratha is the first known description of weapons made for manslaugther, as well as the first reord of actual warfare. The Aryan off-spring Krisna took a central part in the calamities, persuading Anjuna to us his bow for killing his and Krisnas political oponents - i.e. the old royals - to enforce the inroduction of a "new age". In the war that followed Krisna creates an arillery unit, were he himself steer two oxes that pulls a wagon - from which Anjuna can shoot his arrows effectively.  It mighthave been the loosers of this war that had to flee the Indian area - to the west. Less than a century later a similar ox-barrow with spear-throwing invaders arrives in the Mesopotian realm. These Indo-Aryans can be seen in the "Standard of Ur" - that is depictng the "Asian soldiers" on wheels - during their invasion, sack and burning of the city of Ur.  http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classicalarch/images1/UrStand2700.jpg The easy success seem to have geared their ambition and soon the same people continue their specific form of colonization nort- and west-wards - were new cities were besiegd, attacked and conquered. A trademark of the new rulers was to burn or tear down the monumental  buildings of the conquered cities and build a new, fortified ones - at the highest hill of the cities.  http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668&sectionid=351020108  By 3.700 they had overrun the Sumerian province and created a new kingdom of Sumeria - with the conquered Babylon as the new capitol.  Later Persegard gets blasted and Persepolis get to be the new capitol - and the long march towards the Mediterranean, the Hittites and the Egyptians could start. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668&sectionid=351020108 3.600 years ago the indo-aryan ship-trade had also advanced far west - along the coast as well as inland of Felix Arabia, it reaching Ertreya and Egypt. By this time they start to learn how to use a more advanced "cavallery" - of horses and chariots. (3.200 they advance to crush the Hittites and occupy the northern part of the Levant.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos 3.500 the (proto-)Phonecians gets to establish trade-routes from India and the Persia bay, along the Arabian coast to the main-routes to the Erytrean Sea, the Akka bay and Egyptian (Red) Sea. As the Hyskos arrived in Egypt the Phoencans were able to organize an attack on Egypt - together with their cousins of the land-road, called "Asian soldiers". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia Combining smart diplomacy and trade with infiltration and political play they were finally able to go for the regime ofthe Nile delta  around 3.500 BP. In Egyptian they were called "heqa khasewet", i.e. "foreign rulers" - and their cavalery of charioteers called "haibrw".   Co-ordinating attacks from the Red Sea and the Levant simultaniousy with the land-army with chariots - the Hyksos were able to roll into Egypt and conquer the temples of Heliopolis.  Gaining controll over all the land east of the Nile they instigated their own dynasty of pharaoes - with Avaris as they capitol. The escaping Egyptians survived to "regroup" in "Upper Egypt" forming a new capitol in Thebe - untill they were strong enough to strike back and effectively figth the intruders. According to the stela in Medinet Habu the cavalerists of the Hyksos, the Hebrw, escaped Canaan by advancing over the Sinai dessrt and back to their former neighbours in the Levant. Here they managed to exterminate the Medianites in a veritable genocide. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031:1-18;&version=9; After this divine effort the remaining Hyksos (i.e. Hebrew) were able to get join in a political union with their cousin Phonecians, from which the retaliation on Egypt were planned - as known in the attack of the Sea People, which is a final phase of the Troyan wars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples As the Asyrians came to rule the old Sumer and Arabia and the Hebrews ruled the Levant - they controlled all the land-routes between the Med and India/China. With the control of the Red Sea, Suez, Tyre and Carthagethe the Phoenicians would solemnly rule the Mediteranean trade to the east/south-east, from where the famous ivory, clothes, colors, silk and spices would arrive.  The sea-routes to Erytreia or Akaba - and then along the coast of Felix Arabia to Cambay and Punt - were the key-route to the Asian trade-cultures, that included India, Myanmar and China. The relationship between the first wars between the Indo-Aryans and the greek Sumerians - and the successive spread of war - was difficult to clearify before modern archaology were able to weigh in the evidences and the dates of the events that spread from the Pesian Bay to the Med during the 2. millenium BC. As the conquest advanced the size of the armies grew from a few thousand to hundred of thousands - leading to the destructon of the old cities of the Middle East.  As the "Burnt cities" have been excavated and dated  (from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean) it has been possible to deduct a time-line of events, that may explain the how cultural extremity of warfare, devastation and genocide - came to search out and destroy most of the old civilisations between India to Spain in less than a millenia. http://www.nabataea.net/hyksos.html During the 1. millenia BC it spreads further into the mainlands of Anatoilia, Egypt, Libya, Greece, Italy and Spain - until the time of Alexander.  Later the Romans picked up the "Alexandrian herritage" - as they learned to defend themselves effectily. Successfully doing so the plebeian generals advanced to political power, where they developed the policy to turn Rme into a metropois for a world wide empire. After the re-conquest of (punic) Libya they advanced on Spain, Geece, the Levant and Egypt - before the resources ran out. Solving it radically the marshall Caesar turned on Romes oldest (peaceful) allies - as he marched into the untouched resources of northern Europe - to "as a savage wolf drink the Gallic blood" (Cato). Thus the lawful defenders had turned criminal themselves and the history of agression, manslaughter and conquest. Idolizing the success of brute strength, predatory behaviour and millitary technoogy - manipulation, stigmatization and warfare became "crimeless" and comme il faut as a political tools. Thus the ideas and means of Maabaratha had spread as a wildfire - to reach the outermost realms of the known world. Thus the origin and history of the intruding Hyksos, along with their alied Phoenicians, can actually be followed back to India. Paradoxically they seem to have left alongside the rather peaceful Gypsies - close to 4.000 years ago - as a result of the civil wars between the Indo-Aryans...

Quite interesting but how are these Hyksos(Hebrew)able to maintain an identity in foreign lands. the nomadic and pastoral war like people you described reminded me of Hammurabi,its very imaginative to think they were able to reamain cloaked in the Levant region and impregnate other cultures after their expulsion.

Greek Sumerians ,Indo Aryans alligned Gypsies.Didn't they appear in the next millenia.I posted something about the Indo Aryans taking the teachings of Zoroaster and the Vedic in another post.http:
//www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=26510

Very Interesting nonetheless.


Edited by AksumVanguard - 15-Feb-2009 at 01:52