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Masterpiece Battles
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Jonathan4290 View Drop Down
Pretorian
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Posts: 185 		  Quote Jonathan4290 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Masterpiece Battles
    Posted: 21-Oct-2008 at 16:47
I read Simon Goodenough's Tactical Genius in Battle a few years ago and blown away by the genius of some generals in battle. I view the 27 battles he covered as his choices as his 27 ideal masterpiece battles but many are notably missing or undeserving of a place in this book IMO. Without using doubles of the same commander (or else Napoleon would monopolize it) what should the top 30 masterpieces be? What are the most brilliant battle performances by a commander?
 
Here's the list of battles Goodenough covers:
Kadesh, 1299BC (Ramesses II)
Marathon, 490BC (Miltiads)
Salamis, 480BC (Thermistocles)
Leuctra, 371BC (Epaminondas)
Guagamela, 331BC (Alexander)
Cannae, 216BC (Hannibal)
Pharsalus, 48BC (Caesar)
Daras, 530 (Belisarius)
Hastings, 1066 (William)
Mohi, 1241 (Subotai)
Garigliano, 1503 (Cordoba)
Brietenfeld, 1631 (Gustavus)
Wittstock, 1636 (Baner)
Rocroi, 1643 (Conde)
Blenheim, 1704 (Marlborough)
Leuthen, 1757 (Frederick)
Cape St Vincent, 1797 (Nelson)
Austerlitz, 1805 (Napoleon)
Salamanca, 1812 (Wellington)
Vicksburg, 1863 (Grant)
Tannenberg, 1914 (Ludendorff/Hindenburg)
France, 1940 (Guderian/Manstein)
Buna-Gona, 1942 (MacArthur)
El Alamein, 1942 (Montgomery)
Miektyla, 1945 (Slim)
Yom Kippur, 1973 (Sharon)
 
For starters, I think Cowpens, 1781 (Morgan), the masterpiece on American soil in history, and Walaja, 633 (Khalid), the "other" double envelopment must be added.
 
Like great battles? How about when they're animated for easy viewing?
Visit my site, The Art of Battle: Animated Battle Maps at www.theartofbattle.com.
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2008 at 18:16
Trafalgar, Nelson
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Gundamor View Drop Down
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Posts: 568 		  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2008 at 20:50
Originally posted by Jonathan4290

 
For starters, I think Cowpens, 1781 (Morgan), the masterpiece on American soil in history, and Walaja, 633 (Khalid), the "other" double envelopment must be added.
 
 
Davout's double envelopment at Austerstadt against a force twice his size is also up there as one of the finest of these type maneuvers. And one of the reasons he's considered a pretty good Military General/Marshall.
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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rider View Drop Down
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2008 at 15:20
The only masterpiece in tactics would be an innovation never heard of before, in my sense. Therefore, using the same tactic over and over again is not cool... Masterpiece is when someone does something really brilliant and it succeeds, even if the battle is lost. 
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Temujin View Drop Down
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2008 at 17:31
i could be the asshole again and say that most of those battles are not really exceptional but famous.
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rider View Drop Down
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2008 at 17:49
Thanks for doing that.
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Jonathan4290 View Drop Down
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Posts: 185 		  Quote Jonathan4290 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2008 at 22:44
Yeh, Goodenough makes a few of those battles seem very genius and epic. Like Buna-Gona? A huge slogging match that isn't anywhere near a masterpiece.
 
The battles Goodenough describes that I really appreciate are Cannae, Pharsalus, Daras, Mohi, Wittstock, Blenhieim, Austerlitz, Salamanca, Tannenberg and France.
 
Leuthen should be replaced with Rossbach.
 
Vicksburg was what, the fourth attempt? It can be dropped for like Chancellorsville.
 
El Alamein was just a defensive stance that didn't need to be that much more to be decisive.
Like great battles? How about when they're animated for easy viewing?
Visit my site, The Art of Battle: Animated Battle Maps at www.theartofbattle.com.
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