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US-Turkish Relations at New Low

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: US-Turkish Relations at New Low
    Posted: 12-Mar-2005 at 15:58
I hope this scenario never happens. It is only fiction but who knows what the Fates have in store for mankind!!

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-03-11-voa63.cfm

US-Turkish Relations at New Low
By Ed Warner
Washington
11 March 2005
     
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U.S.-Turkish relations have reached a new low, illustrated by a best-selling Turkish novel depicting war between the two countries. The tensions arise in large part from the U.S. occupation of Iraq and its consequences. VOA's Ed Warner reports on this startling shift of opinion in a nation recently considered quite close to the United States.

Turkey is in flames. A U.S. air attack has leveled Istanbul and Ankara, and now American tanks are rolling in to occupy the country. In desperation, the Turks call on Russia and the European Union for help, and these onetime enemies of Turkey stall the U.S. advance and end the war, but not before an enterprising Turkish agent has destroyed much of Washington with a nu
clear device.

The stuff of fantasy, to be sure, in a best-selling Turkish novel titled Metal Storm. It has indeed taken the Turkish public by storm and politicians as well with an outrageous plot that somehow strikes a responsive chord. Readers seem to find its fiction uncomfortably close to fact. One of its two authors, Burak Turna, a former military affairs reporter, claims his book is not just another conspiracy theory but a possibility theory.

What is going on? How can two erstwhile allies, cooperative in so many areas, go to war? At the moment, there is certainly a war of words. A BBC survey indicates Turkey is now the most anti-American nation on earth. In this atmosphere, no monstrous act is considered beyond America or its Israeli partner in crime who are even compared to the German Nazis. Columnist Arnaud deBorchgrave says some Turks may be outvenoming Osama bin Laden.

Real life has contributed to this startling shift of opinion. Turks, like many others, strongly opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq and suspect U.S. plans for the region. They are particularly uneasy over the growing separatism of Kurds in northern Iraq. This, in turn, could enflame the already restive Kurds within Turkey. What, they ask, is the U.S. up to?

The Kurdish question is central, says Sabri Sayari, director of the Institute for Turkish Studies at Georgetown University. Turks believe the United States has failed to suppress the anti-Turkish rebels operating in northern Iraq.

I think Turkish sentiment has to be explained in the context of what is happening in Iraq, he said. Obviously, the war in Iraq has not been popular in Turkey for a variety of reasons, especially the situation in northern Iraq with the growing power of the Kurds and the general instability that has engulfed a neighboring country.

Henry Barkey, professor of international relations at Lehigh University, says there is Turkish concern of spillover. A separate Kurdish entity in Iraq could revive the separatist movement in Turkey.

There is an enormous fear in Turkey, a paranoia if you want, that events in Iraq will propel Kurds in Turkey to seek the same thing, noted Mr. Barkey. I think this is overly exaggerated. The Turkish Kurds have had problems with the Turkish government and the Turkish elite, but they are part of a very vibrant economy and a very vibrant society, which is on its way to become a member of the European Union a decade and a half from now.

For this reason, says Professor Barkey, Turkish Kurds have little incentive to imitate Iraqi Kurds. But they understandably resent the condescending way they are often treated in Turkey. That needs to change, says Professor Barkey.

Underlying U.S.-Turkish tensions is the growing presence of Islam. When the current Islamist government took over in Turkey, Washington at first responded positively, says Professor Sayari.

The US has been pretty much in support of Turkey's experiment with a party that originates from the Islamist movement, he added. When it initially came to power in 2002, this party was viewed as something that would prove that Islam and democracy are compatible and there should be no clash of civilizations. So the US was upholding Turkey as a kind of model in a way.

But Washington cooled, particularly over Turkey's refusal to let U.S. forces invade Iraq from its territory.

Even so, says Professor Barkey, U.S. actions hardly excuse the constant anti-American drumbeat of Turkish politicians and journalists. Nothing Washington says is believed:

When you have serious newspapers publishing articles about the United States having a secret weapon that makes earthguakes and that Istanbul is the next target, he explained. When you have newspapers that publish all kinds of scurrilous articles about the United States, that is more worrisome. The problem is that some Turkish politicians have joined the fray and have accused the United States of genocide and all kinds of other activities in Iraq.

It is time for dialogue, says Professor Barkey. U.S. and Turkish officials should sit down and map out the steps ahead to restore proper, if not amicable relations. The two countries are too important for each other to let the current rancor persist.
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2005 at 23:42
I guess Turkey is not proven to be a good ally. The united states should stop pooring in so much aid and money into turkey, if when the US calls turkey to launch an attack, TUrkey turns it down.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2005 at 19:38

Heres, one explaination,

Turks Oppose Bush Because of PKK

Saturday, March 12 2005 @ 07:29 AM Central Standard Time

The attitude of Turkish people who head the list of countries opposing the US in a recent public survey reportedly stems from US policy on the terrorist organization the Kurdish Workers' Party (PKK).

The International Strategic Survey Institution's "Turkey-US Relations" survey, which was distributed to over 1,250 people, results suggest that 75 percent believe the most crucial problem between the two countries is the PKK problem. While 58 percent of the participants responded to the question, "Do you define yourself as an enemy of the USA?" with "no", 16 percent responded affirmatively.

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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 02:39

PKK killed 30.000 Turks,including men,babies,women,children...And our dearest ally,USA,does nothing to stop the Kurdish terrorists,while they can stop t5hem easily wtih a stop order.

So it is normal that Turks are oppose to Bush because of PKK.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 12:23

They didnt do anything to stop, in fact, they helped them, thought them to fight, use guns, and sold them guns, like most of other European countries, Syria, Greece, Iran and even Iraq. Supporting a mass murderer was their mission.

So my final decision: "Trk'n Trk'ten baka dostu yoktur." (Turk doesnt have any other friends but Turk.)

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  Quote lastbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 14:18
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

PKK killed 30.000 Turks,including men,babies,women,children...And our dearest ally,USA,does nothing to stop the Kurdish terrorists,while they can stop t5hem easily wtih a stop order.

So it is normal that Turks are oppose to Bush because of PKK.

Do something yourself for a change. Turkish members always talk about their great army, yet you cannot control domestic terrorists? the USA is not the worlds protector, and it should not be. It is kind of humorous that you call on the US to stop your own terrorists.. Turkey is not some Islamic based government that supports these terrorists or anything.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 11:46

Gerilla war is nothing about your nations military power. Remember th battle of Vietnam...

The US didnt help its ally about the PKK issue, but US was even a major factor on PKK's current power and they always helped seperatists. They still do it by selling guns and teaching to fight to the pashmargas of northern Iraq. Look at the conspiracy there. The Turkmens are tried to be showed as a minority in Mousul and Kirkuk...

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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 23:22
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Gerilla war is nothing about your nations military power. Remember th battle of Vietnam...


The US didnt help its ally about the PKK issue, but US was even a major factor on PKK's current power and they always helped seperatists. They still do it by selling guns and teaching to fight to the pashmargas of northern Iraq. Look at the conspiracy there. The Turkmens are tried to be showed as a minority in Mousul and Kirkuk...



vietnam was a war, not a battle. we were winning(kind of)
but i get your point. when fighting guerillas, its alot more difficult kind of war to win. gotta get rid of the civilians support of the guerillas(wether by "intern camps" or, the better option in my eyes, getting the civilians on your side) gotta find them, break their morale, and so on and so forth.


Edited by white dragon
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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 01:12
Remember that this is only a novel and this story is NOT true.

Turkey doesnt agree on all what USA does but they are friends.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 19:46
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

PKK killed 30.000 Turks,including men,babies,women,children...And our dearest ally,USA,does nothing to stop the Kurdish terrorists,while they can stop t5hem easily wtih a stop order.


So it is normal that Turks are oppose to Bush because of PKK.



I am not aware of this and most American are not either but anyone who would kill an innocent child or any civilian is low and a coward. What can we do to stop the Kurds? Are you talking about the Kurds in Turkey or the ones in Iraq? or both???

This dying world has so many issues it is hard to keep up with them all.

Now if Yellowstone blows it will all be over- hopefully not in our time!!! I do not worry-
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 16:09
Originally posted by lastbout

Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

PKK killed 30.000 Turks,including men,babies,women,children...And our dearest ally,USA,does nothing to stop the Kurdish terrorists,while they can stop t5hem easily wtih a stop order.

So it is normal that Turks are oppose to Bush because of PKK.

Do something yourself for a change. Turkish members always talk about their great army, yet you cannot control domestic terrorists? the USA is not the worlds protector, and it should not be. It is kind of humorous that you call on the US to stop your own terrorists.. Turkey is not some Islamic based government that supports these terrorists or anything.

TALK AFTER YOU LEARN

What domestic terrorist do you mention????

PKK-KADEK/KONGRA-GEL has always been supported by the U.S., ISRAEL, SWEDEN, FRANCE, GREECE, ARMENIA, GERMANY, UK, ITALY...

Also Syria and Iran supported many times, too.

These countries always accused TURKEY with fighting against PKK in the name of Kurd rights while PKK murdered (still murdering rarely) Kurdish babies.

 

 



Edited by YAFES
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 16:17

Originally posted by Catt

Remember that this is only a novel and this story is NOT true.

Turkey doesnt agree on all what USA does but they are friends.

Well, that novel (i read it all) is nothing but a popular culture trash.

The vision which the novel presents has already current in Turkey for years. We always discuss about Washington's "enemy-like" attitudes against its LOVELY ally.

American military existence in northeren Iraq of the last 20 years(official and nonofficial), non-sense supports to Israel in every occation, armenian claims at the american congress, enemy behaviour to Turks in America....

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 16:22

Originally posted by strategos

I guess Turkey is not proven to be a good ally. The united states should stop pooring in so much aid and money into turkey, if when the US calls turkey to launch an attack, TUrkey turns it down.

-Turkey never had to be proven to be a good ally, like Greece was with Russia, Britain and EU.

-US never aided us, it's all dept

-The US is not a kind of country that Turkey doesn't turn down its invitation for an unright invasion.

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 17:52
-US never aided us, it's all dept



Seems like you forgot about the Truman Doctrine. March 12, 1947
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 06:46

Originally posted by Phallanx

-US never aided us, it's all dept



Seems like you forgot about the Truman Doctrine. March 12, 1947

THE TRUMAN DOCTRINE DETERMINED TURKEY AS AN ASSIST FOR EUROPE'S RECONSTRUCTION.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 06:50

ALSO WITH THAT DOCTRINE, AMERICA STARTED THE COLD WAR AND TRIED TO USE TURKEY AS A TAMPON AREA AGAINST THE SOVIETS. THIS WAS THE REASON OF THE MARSHALL SUPPORT

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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 00:14

Turkey Renews Deal for U.S. Military to Use Base

Wed Apr 20,12:53 PM ET   World - Reuters



ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey said Wednesday it would extend for another year an agreement allowing the United States to use its Incirlik airbase for planes supplying U.S. and allied forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

   

But the U.S. embassy in Ankara said it was still awaiting notification and said it remained unclear whether Turkey would grant its request for a widening of the terms of the existing deal, including blanket clearance for all flights.


The current deal expires in June and U.S. diplomats have expressed frustration that Turkey has so far not replied to its request, lodged some 10 months ago, for turning Incirlik into an expanded cargo hub.


"There is no new situation. All that is being done right now is regulating things. It is about extending a previous decision," Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul told a news conference. Gul said the cabinet would issue a decree formally extending the accord very soon. Parliament's approval is not required.


Asked if the decree would meet U.S. demands, Gul said "yes."


Turkey is a NATO ally of the United States but relations were badly strained by the Iraq war, which most Turks opposed.


The postwar turmoil in Iraq has also stirred deep unease in Turkey. Ankara fears Iraqi Kurds want to carve out an independent state in northern Iraq which could reignite separatism among Turkey's own Kurds.


For that reason, diplomats say, Turkish officials seem to want to downplay the logistical support provided to Washington via Incirlik, located near the Mediterranean. Under the present deal, the Americans need permission for each flight to and from Incirlik. The U.S. planes are allowed to carry only logistical equipment, not ammunition or -- barring the pilots -- military personnel.






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