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New primative tribe discovered in the Amazon
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Illirac View Drop Down
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Posts: 526 		  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New primative tribe discovered in the Amazon
    Posted: 02-Jun-2008 at 17:46
Originally posted by Zagros


I am not against the previous idea posited that contact be made by people they may be a little more used to in order that they are warned of certain dangers that they may face.


Absolutely agree. But the expedition could be attacked by them...
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2008 at 17:55

Just a point about this particular group. They aren't the first natives contacted in the last times. There are hundred of thousand of Amazon natives in the process of being "civilized" in Brazil, Ecuador, Peru and Venezuela. Even more, I could bet money that that "uncontact" tribe has some relatives in already contacted tribes!

The states of the regions had budgets and teams doing the work of assimilated them right now, and also protecting them from loggers and miners. Some natives have already migrated to the cities, other use glasses or have web pages. Most kids have a least a basic education.

The idea that a "white" cough and an Indian dies is pretty absurd. Vaccination prevent them from die in mass as once happened. What is important, though is they are still fighting for the rights to theirs lands. That's why some groups have modern weapons by now and some crime or conflict explodes once in a while.
 
The Amazon is a though place, like the Far West, but things are today a lot better than it were two centuries ago, when slavery and killings were at its peak, introduced by westerners.
 
 
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2008 at 00:27
Originally posted by pinguin

The idea that a "white" cough and an Indian dies is pretty absurd. Vaccination prevent them from die in mass as once happened. What is important, though is they are still fighting for the rights to theirs lands. That's why some groups have modern weapons by now and some crime or conflict explodes once in a while.
 
isolated groups have little in the way of imunity, the 'white' cough as you call it, spread quicker via native trade routes in Australia than the Europeans themselves. Tribes were getting smashed by disease before we made direct contact, thats how devasting it can be.
 
Now do the varoius governments protect these guys health before the impact is felt? I suspect not
 
Introduced diseases are the biggest killer of isolated tribal people, who have not developed immunity to viruses such as influenza, measles and chicken pox that most other societies have been in contact with for hundreds of years.

In Peru, more than 50% of the previously-uncontacted Nahua tribe were wiped out following oil exploration on their land in the early 1980s, and the same tragedy engulfed the Murunahua in the mid-1990s after being forcibly contacted by illegal mahogany loggers. One of the Murunahua survivors, Jorge, who lost an eye during first contact, told a Survival researcher, ‘The disease came when the loggers made contact with us, although we didn’t know what a cold was then. The disease killed us. Half of us died. My aunt died, my nephew died. Half of my people died.’

 
 


Edited by Leonidas - 03-Jun-2008 at 00:30
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2008 at 01:41
Originally posted by Leonidas

.. isolated groups have little in the way of imunity, the 'white' cough as you call it, spread quicker via native trade routes in Australia than the Europeans themselves. Tribes were getting smashed by disease before we made direct contact, thats how devasting it can be.
 
Yes. I know that and the historical events as well. The "white caugh" was also transmitted by blacks Africans, though. The ephidemy that devasted Aztecs was brought by a sick African from Cuba. Besides, it is also well known that the legitimate Inca died of "Spanish caugh" while Spaniards were in Panama!
 
We should not forget, though, that the mortality between Europeans under those disseases was quite high as well. Not as high as the indigenous people, but not small at all.
 
Not only Amerindians and Australians were affected in such manner by deseases. Polynesians and Inuits also suffered quite a lot. The only people that survived more to deseases than Europeans were Africans, and in that continent it was the European who was usually the victim rather than the native.
 
Originally posted by Leonidas

..
Now do the varoius governments protect these guys health before the impact is felt? I suspect not
 
Introduced diseases are the biggest killer of isolated tribal people, who have not developed immunity to viruses such as influenza, measles and chicken pox that most other societies have been in contact with for hundreds of years.

In Peru, more than 50% of the previously-uncontacted Nahua tribe were wiped out following oil exploration on their land in the early 1980s, and the same tragedy engulfed the Murunahua in the mid-1990s after being forcibly contacted by illegal mahogany loggers. One of the Murunahua survivors, Jorge, who lost an eye during first contact, told a Survival researcher, ‘The disease came when the loggers made contact with us, although we didn’t know what a cold was then. The disease killed us. Half of us died. My aunt died, my nephew died. Half of my people died.

Of course that could happen if the government agencies don't vaccinate them at the first chance.
 
What it is interesting, though, is that far from killing 90% of the Amerindian population, those deseases caused a lot of mortality, circa 50% but populations recovered with time. Perhaps one of the reason why Amerindian people mixed quite a lot with Europeans was precisely that. Somehow they realize the children of mixed couples where a lot more resistent to the "white cough". As it happened, while the mixed  population skyrocked, the native stayed the same, and even diminished.
 
Today in places where disseases striked the most (the Americas and the Pacific) people is usually very mixed with foreigns. A perhaps strange way of survive in times where medicine was not good enough to save them, I guess.
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2008 at 07:04
The above two posts and the link Leonidas provides show why these peoples need to be vaccinated at first oppurtunity, even if it is forcibly. 50% mortality rate is Poland death rate in WWII.
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Illirac View Drop Down
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Posts: 526 		  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2008 at 12:17
Originally posted by Sparten

The above two posts and the link Leonidas provides show why these peoples need to be vaccinated at first oppurtunity, even if it is forcibly. 50% mortality rate is Poland death rate in WWII.


At least they can not be affected by great pandemics since they are isolated. I know that the risk of it is almost inexistent but still, it can happen...
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2008 at 03:19
What shame for those people. Their entire way of life is about to be destroyed.

My first thought is that they should be left alone, but after reading this thread it seems like 'civilized' folks will make contact anyway, and bring diseases that could wipe out most of the natives.

I don't know what should be done.

They should be left in as much isolation as possible.
Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
     Edward Abbey
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