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Who would win Germany vs. Soviet Union 1939 |
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Scheich 
Pretorian 
Joined: 07-Jun-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 183 |
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 Topic: Who would win Germany vs. Soviet Union 1939Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 17:21 |
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Which country would win the war between Germany and USSR after the end of Poland in October 1939 without a 3rd nation? |
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Paul
General 
AE Immoderator Joined: 21-Aug-2004 Location: Hyperborea Online Status: Offline Posts: 952 |
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Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 19:05 |
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A war would take 5 years, as it did so Russian production would win.
However Germany was in a much worse situation in 39 than 41, it had few decent tanks and less aircraft. Russia however was in much better shape, it hadn't just decimated its officer corp and withdrawn all heavy weapons from frontline units.
Edited by Paul - 06-Apr-2008 at 19:05 |
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Light blue touch paper and stand well back
http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
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Sarmat
Caliph 
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 19:30 |
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Germany wasn't ready for the war with the USSR in 1939; it would probably be a stalemate. |
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Σαυρομάτης
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Illirac
Colonel 
Joined: 23-Jun-2007 Location: Ma vlast Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 20:40 |
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Yes, they were not ready in the 1939. The Germans weren't that prepared and they had difficulties in 1941 holding that vast territory, when they were far more better prepared. The USSR would win as they were in better conditions...
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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet Joined: 08-Oct-2006 Location: Korea, South Online Status: Offline Posts: 3335 |
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Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 21:26 |
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Russians would surely win. Germans weren't prepared for mechanical/armour warfare in 1939... and much of the German military upgrades from financial and material support from surrendered France would not be able to play role against technologically, numerically and economically superior Russians. The only drawback for the Russians is that most of their capable generals were wiped out in Stalin's Great Purge... but perhaps some good and capable generals would have been alive to change the tide of war compared to few years later....
But any definite answer is difficult to predict. Very few predicted such a quick German victory over France in WWII. Who knows, maybe Germans could have pulled off a miracle. If Hitler came to USSR as liberators rather than conquerors... who knows. Most of the Russians would have been glad to get rid of him in the time of Great Purge. Who knows.
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gcle2003
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Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
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Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 11:04 |
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In pretty well all 1939 scenarios (and 1914) the question is 'could Germany use the benefits of surprise and being better prepared to win quickly?' If Germany doesn't win quickly, it loses a long war against any of the other major powers.
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Omar al Hashim
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Suspended Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5697 |
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Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 11:09 |
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No-one can ever conquer Russia quickly.
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Scheich
Pretorian
Joined: 07-Jun-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 183 |
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Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 18:17 |
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Germanys only chance to win would be to hold the line by a position warfare and attack the USSR with Tabun in 1942 and maybe with ICBMs in 1946. But by a war with only conventional weapons the USSR would win!
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gcle2003
King
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 11:05 |
That's true, but to split a hair the question is whether Germany could have beaten the Soviet Union. The difference is that there were a lot of anti-Soviet Russians around, and an outside possibility that the Germans could present themselves as anti-Bolshevik liberators.
With the Nazi attitude to Slavs this was never going to happen (though there was a very high rate of surrender in the Soviet Army in the first few days) but in theory if the invading Germans had treated the 'liberated' people in the occupied areas well they might have been able to overthrow the regime.
In the army I had two Russian instructors who had fought in the battle for Moscow in 1941, one on each side. Since the one who had fought for the Red Army had later defected (obviously) both of them were given to dreaming of what might have happened if the invaders had not mistreated the inhabitants of the occupied areas.
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Illirac
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Joined: 23-Jun-2007 Location: Ma vlast Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 14:33 |
So your plan for them would be: attack in 1939 hold until 1946 for the ICBMs? |
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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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Scheich
Pretorian
Joined: 07-Jun-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 183 |
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 18:16 |
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It is difficult to say, because both were unable to defeat each other quickly! Which one had the better air force? The nation with the strongest air force could bomb down the enemy with C and B weapons!
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Guests
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 09:47 |
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The USSR seems to be the clear favorite here, and the reasoning behind it is strong.
But like somebody mentioned, Stalin had just purged the whole Red Army. Decimating it's best officers. And while the USSR finally caught up in industrialization, it was still trailing the world powers. People were still starving, and the gulags were getting no better. I think if the Germans attacked in spring, took most of their military away from their own western borders (left enough to deter any kind of invasion from outside powers) and just made a clear-cut effort to capture Leningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow....I think victory would have been well within their grasp. I think leading up to 1939, Germany had the economic advantage. Before the onset of war, almost everything was working in their favor. But who knows such things? Hypothetical situations are just that. |
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pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet Joined: 08-Oct-2006 Location: Korea, South Online Status: Offline Posts: 3335 |
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Posted: 22-Apr-2008 at 17:53 |
I think even paranoid figure like Stalin would realize that he should stop killing his officers by the time the Germans are just outside much of Russian major cities...
Overall, good points. If Hitler actually let his military experts to do their work instead of interfering with his idiotic orders... maybe he could had a lot more success. The Great Purge was by no means appealing to Russians as much as Nazi' holacoust appealing to Jews. In fact, hundreds of thousands of Russians surrendered to Germans with little resistance in the initial stage of the war. Once they realized that Germans are as bad as Russians, and Stalin started to look like a serious leader against "fascist invaders", Stalin won the moral support. If Germans really came as tolerant and reasonable liberators, then why would they support those bastards with their guns behind your back?
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