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European (esp British) national costumes...?
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Mercian View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Mercian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: European (esp British) national costumes...?
    Posted: 26-Mar-2008 at 01:33
Originally posted by gcle2003

18th century court dress didn't have matching jacket and hose. In fact technically 'court dress' doesn't now: neither does morning dress. Evening dress usually matches, but not necessarily.
Yep, no argument here... I didn't mean 'match' as in 'matching', I meant as in not being incongruous. I was mostly just introducing 'suit''s etymology, when the concept of 'match' was obviously not as strict as now. Maybe that was just a bad choice of words: it comes from 'follow' as I said, so in some way the word suit comes from the clothes 'following' each other... I suppose an example would be that the shoulder pads in the doublet 'went with' the cuirass etc...
 
It depends a lot on what you mean by 'suit'. The modern suit, in all its varieties, depends on having a matching jacket and trousers, and trousers were never more than very casual, lower-class wear until the late 18th, early 19th century. Note: I'm distinguishing here between trousers - loose leggings - and hose or breeches which were and are tight fitting. I don't think hose and breeches ever matched whatever top was being worn with them.
Well, as I said, I was looking at the modern suit, but also its evolution!
 
I'm again taking a bit of a linguistic turn with this, and suppose, though I haven't found any reference to it, that Charles II's declarations of English wear mentioned the word suit somewhere!
 
I'd have thought the French Revolution had more to do with the initial re-introduction of trousers as acceptable dress than fashions in Britain.
Really? They never seemed to go out of fashion since Charles II. Before him the common folk seemed to be still wearing smocks and whathaveyou and since him the common folk seemed to be wearing trousers more. And around the French Revolution Beau Brummel would have had more of an influence on English fashion of the time... no?
 
Plus, if you're suggesting Europe-wide trouser-wearing habit, if you're suggesting that the French Revolution popularised trouser wearing because the were practical for the masses, surely the masses would have already been wearing trousers (and we know the gentry certainly were)...? I can't really see your logic...!
 
I've got a copy of Lucy Barton's Historic Costume for the Stage around somewhere but I can't find it offhand. If you're interested in the history of fashion it's worth having.
Interesting, I'll have to check that out. I've got a copy of 'The History of Fashion' at my parents' house, but that's the other side of the world...
 
Thanks for the post.


Edited by Mercian - 26-Mar-2008 at 01:45
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2008 at 11:01
Originally posted by Mercian

 
I'd have thought the French Revolution had more to do with the initial re-introduction of trousers as acceptable dress than fashions in Britain.
Really? They never seemed to go out of fashion since Charles II. Before him the common folk seemed to be still wearing smocks and whathaveyou and since him the common folk seemed to be wearing trousers more. And around the French Revolution Beau Brummel would have had more of an influence on English fashion of the time... no?
Beau Brummel wouldn't have been seen dead in trousers. Even today, the Speaker in Parliament and various court officials at ceremonies like the opening of Parliament are not allowed to wear trousers.
In 1937, the final edition of Dress Worn at Court was published. The new style velvet court dress included a white satin waistcoat (not white corded silk or marcella), or a new optional black velvet waistcoat. The cocked hat is described as "beaver", silk being omitted. The shirt was to be as worn with evening dress, soft front with stiff white cuffs. Trousers were still prohibited. The cloth coat was now to be decorated with gold embroidery similar to the edge of a Privy Counsellor's uniform coat.
Note "Trousers were still prohibited".
The common folk who wore smocks wore trousers under them. In fact they wore trousers whatever they had over them. Male domestic servants would not have done so though. Trousers were distinctly unsmart till the 19th century (in Britain anyway).
Plus, if you're suggesting Europe-wide trouser-wearing habit, if you're suggesting that the French Revolution popularised trouser wearing because the were practical for the masses, surely the masses would have already been wearing trousers (and we know the gentry certainly were)...? I can't really see your logic...!
On the contrary we know the 'gentry' certainly weren't. The wikipedia article on the 'sans-culottes' (trouser-wearers) explains this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans_culottes
 
I've got a copy of Lucy Barton's Historic Costume for the Stage around somewhere but I can't find it offhand. If you're interested in the history of fashion it's worth having.
Interesting, I'll have to check that out. I've got a copy of 'The History of Fashion' at my parents' house, but that's the other side of the world...
 
Thanks for the post.
The Barton book is written for people wanting to make historic costumes, so it includes patterns and such. I actually acquired it from being involved in the stage and costume-making, so it isn't on my history shelves, and I can't remember where we put it when we moved last year. In a box in the basement probably. Ermm
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longshanks31 View Drop Down
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Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2008 at 13:14
Well union jack boxer shorts if that counts.
 
other than that burberry in the cities and wax jackets on the farms, there are costumes that go with jobs and roles, judges, mayors, town criers, morris dancers, ceremionial stuff in society but nothing that every man,jack, tom, dick and harry takes to wearing regularly.
long live the king of bhutan
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2008 at 18:58
How about gum boots?
 
With a Burberry lining.
 
And a Union Jack logo.
 
 
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2012 at 20:46
Originally posted by gcle2003

I can't find a picture of Luxembourg national costume but for part of our Christmas card some years ago Jo Anne drew this:
 
 
 
The mice are Luxembourgers (blue tunic, red neckerchief, red trousers). The rest you have to guess Smile
 


Typical! The French and Germans sit around drinking while everyone else does all the hard workLOL
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Posts: 22 		  Quote JohnAshtone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2012 at 08:42
Most Folk costumes from other Countries seem to be less than three hundred years old.
 
And the English national dress, the problem is most of the world wears it.
 
Trousers, shirt, tie and jacket.
 
The problem seems to be most people cannot see the wood for the trees, when Japan decided to drag itself into the Modern world at the end of the 19th Century, they immediately dressed as English Gentlemen, the Americans already did, with slight variations, and the French influenced the Fashion in London which was then followed by the rest of Europe.
 
Got large parts of the world and the English national dress is the only one allowed in the work place.
 
By choice and functional use, not by dictact from the British.
 
 
Quis Custodiet ipsos custodes, Juvenal. Or as George Smiley would say ~Who will Guard the Guardians~
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2012 at 20:23
Recently, parts of England have introduced Scottish-style tartans. The Black Country have a distinctive black, red and yellow pattern representing mining and heavy industry
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=5796
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LeopoldPhilippe View Drop Down
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Posts: 405 		  Quote LeopoldPhilippe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2015 at 19:58
The traditional men's wear of Hungary included the pants tucked into their leather boots. Men may wear hats with floppy brims.    
The women wore different colored skirts and bright headdresses. Women may wear babushkas (scarves) on their heads.
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