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Ongot: The Lost Turkic/Mongol Tribe
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xi_tujue View Drop Down
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Atabeg

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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ongot: The Lost Turkic/Mongol Tribe
    Posted: 07-Dec-2007 at 21:50
I thought Azeris used the most persian than Anatolian Turkish than Uygur and than Turkmen and than Uzbek?
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 08:09
I was talking about Central Asia...
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 08:59
Than its Uygur Turkmen Uzbek Ermm
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Jalair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 10:18

What are reasons behind this influence: Turkic tolerance of other cultures, Islam, Turks reign in CA or other reasons?
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 11:13
Because islam was frankly new to them 2. They were fresh converts them selfs. and generaly Turks 'were' more tollerant when it came to Religion compared to some other Dynasties in Islam
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 17:40
Originally posted by Jalair

Uzbek language in Afghanistan has been more under influence of Persian (Dari). Up to 60 % or more persian words are in use in current Uzbek language in northern Afghanistan. One of the issues that most Uzbeks in Afghanistan say is that they can not understand Turkish dialect spoken in Turkey and vis a versa.
 
 Uzbeks in Uzbekistan also don't understand turkey turkish language and this is not because of persian influence in uzbek... 
It wouldn't constitute as uzbek language if more than 60% of the language contained persian words...  
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 18:09
There are different accents in Ozbekistan, the closest to that of Azeri or Turkey Turkish is "Khwarezm accent".
 
As for 60% of Afghan Turki being Persian, it sounds a bit much.
 
Here is an Afgan Turki song tribute to Dostum, "Hosh Keldiniz"
 
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 19:24
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Even in Central Asia, Uzbeks use lots of Persian words (more than Kazaks, Kyrkizes and Turkmens).
 
Persian was the "goverment language" in Central Asian states until Shohruh's rule. It was a custom to use persian in central asian diplomacy.... No doubt there is so much persian influence in uzbek language...
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 19:31
Since I have been listening tgo Ca music I allways wondered why turkish has become so soft

K's have been replaced with H
T's have been replaced with D
etc...




Edited by xi_tujue - 08-Dec-2007 at 19:31
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 19:51

If you listen to alot of Oghuz Turkish speakers, the K is said like a g, official Turkey Turkish, "Komshu", but in Anatolia colloquially its common to head "Gomshu", in Azerbaycan "Gomshu", in Turkmenistan Gomshu/Gonshi.

But Kazakistan and Kirgizistan say "Konshu/Konshi" with a hard k.
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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xi_tujue View Drop Down
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 20:24
yeah but oghuz dialect is more nasal

Meskheti Turkish Dialect uses T instead of D & K insted of H

For insatnce
dag = Tag
Dayi = Tayi


haber = kheber (kh throat sound g)

etc...



Edited by xi_tujue - 08-Dec-2007 at 22:47
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2007 at 20:39
Originally posted by xi_tujue

I think the Kazakhs use Russian the most in CA if i'm not mistaken
 
Yes, you are right.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote khutulun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2007 at 18:50
@ Jalair
 
I'm sure there are a ton of theories, but one of the most simple ones is that with the Turkic peoples that migrated West probably intermixed with the native population.  The continued waves of migration bringing in 'fresh' Turkic tribes largely kept the identity and language Turkic.  The Arabic influence can be understood for deeply religious reasons, and it has affected all the languages of all Muslim and some non-Muslim groups. 
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Posts: 108 		  Quote Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2008 at 08:05
Onggud is very popular family name among the Mongols. Queen Mandukhai, who help Dayan Khan to reunify the Mongols, was just from the Onggud tribe.  
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Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2008 at 21:18

Nicely done to draw back to the topic, Yungsiyebu.

I remembered Abulghazi gave the meaning of Ongut as the Chinese word Wengu. (Jin was quite sinicised back then).
 
Wengu means strengthen, solidify. From their political role in the border regions, this seems to be quite reasonable interpretation.  They were related to Shatuo (Sir tardush), who later became one of Uyghur tribes.
 
Their king was killed to support Chengizkhan, and from then on several princes became the son in laws of Chengiz royal family. 
 
Either make a history or become a history.
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