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Muslims of Italy

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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Muslims of Italy
    Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 07:24
After the Norman conquest of Sicily there was a steady flow of muslims leaving for Tunisia, however while this flow did reduce the muslim population it still existed in large numbers throughout the whole of Norman rule.

During the chaos after the decline of the norman kingdom, when Fredrick II was technically in charge, but effectively not. The muslims establish a self autonomous state in western Sicily. Contrary to what many say, Fredrick did not bring about the decline of muslim sicily. When he took control of the whole of the Realm of Sicily he did fight long wars with the muslims of sicily, and he did deport 20,000 people to Lucera, however he did not deport the majority of the population. After Fredricks Crusade, where his muslim troops proved to be the only troops whose loyalty he could rely upon while excommunicated, Lucera formed the headquarters of the Imperial Muslim Army. One of the main bodies of troops in the Sicilian and Holy Roman Empire armies. This army featured prominently in his battle against the papacy because they were "immune to interdict and excommunication". Nearly sixty years after Fredricks death, in 1300, the papacy had the muslim population of Lucera and Sicily slaughtered, barring those who could flee to Africa.
The current cathedral of lucrea stands on the spot where the Mosque used to stand before it was destroyed in 1300.
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Leonardo View Drop Down
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 09:04
 
 
 
Bild:Lucera0002.jpg
 
The church of Santa Maria della Vittoria in Lucera
 
 
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Sikander View Drop Down
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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 12:46
The remnants of the Muslim in Sicily/Italy obviously converted to Christianity. It's a natural phenomenon. The same happened to many Muslims in Castille after 1248. And why not? If Christians converted to Islam after the Islamic conquest, why the reverse couldn't apply?


Edited by Sikander - 19-Oct-2007 at 12:58
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Balain d Ibelin View Drop Down
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  Quote Balain d Ibelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 14:07
I don't know what exactly happened to them. But it seems that although the Norman vanquished them, the Muslims influenced the culture of Italy, starting from its architecture until the arts esp. in Sicily and Southern Italy... But also, I've seen that Moslems controlled Southern Italy (Sicily and some parts of Reggio de Calabria etc.) unfortunately the Normans, just like their ancestors, the Vikings left nearly no evidence about Muslims conditions after the Normans take over Sicily & South Italy.
"Good quality will be known among your enemies, before you ever met them my friend"Trobadourre de Crusadier Crux
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DayI View Drop Down
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 01:50
they have a saying in Sicily iirc like this; Music can change but the melody stays the same.
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HEROI View Drop Down
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2007 at 10:37
Originally posted by Al Jassas

especially Calabria, which is in my opinion is the reason why tribalism and Vandettas still exist there because of their Arab heritage, do you think so Leonardo?
 
Al-Jassas
 
I think you are wrong here.Calabria has a big number of its population from Albanian Origines,some of them still today speak the language and have preserved the traditions such as the dress,the songs etc, and are a recognised minority in Italy.They mainly emigrated there after Albania was invaded by the Turks,including the family of the king Skanderbeg.They were in large numbers,and took with them the Albanian KANUN,which is the code of honor,an constitution were the justice for breaking the rules is served by the people themselves.In this constitution there are many kodes regarding the blod feuds,land sharing,power sharing etc.
In southern Italy,specially in Sicily and Calabria,but all over south Italy have been historicaly a large presence of Greeks and Albanian peoples,and is not strange that that region has been influenced by the western balkanic cultures.Vendeta exist all over the world but it has its own characteristics in respective regions.Southern Italy vendeta is characteristic of western balkanic,southern italian vendeta culture.
The vendeta of Arabs has different characteristis.
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2007 at 15:13
Vendettas/bloodfeuds and the like are a common feature of all stateless societies where no instance possesses the monopoly of legitimate violence which is the primary fundament of any State. There is no need to explain this phenomena with Arab influence, you'll find it in many societies throughout history with either a weak or non-existent central power.
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HEROI View Drop Down
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 12:28
Originally posted by Reginmund

Vendettas/bloodfeuds and the like are a common feature of all stateless societies where no instance possesses the monopoly of legitimate violence which is the primary fundament of any State. There is no need to explain this phenomena with Arab influence, you'll find it in many societies throughout history with either a weak or non-existent central power.
 
Not necesarily everywhere.There are and have been states and societies with a strong central power were vendeta exists.Italy has probably one of the best police forces and consolidated state institutions in the world,but vendeta is still a common thing among certain regions.I could give you other examples were vendeta is part of a larger social structure,and it has worked well,by putin dow crime etc.But lets not get out of the topic.
Me pune,me perpjekje.
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