Does America breed Molestation?

http://www.colorofchange.org/cgi-bin/py/genarlow-wilson-petition.py

Originally posted by Constantine XI Originally posted by malizai_ ^It is something that is observed, usually in the form of early segregation of sexes. The control and authority asserted by the elder members of extended families, where children are usually subject to their watchfull eye. You need two hands to clap.   Sorry i don't quite follow you. Could you please rephrase how it has been shown that molestation of children is lower in traditional communities as opposed to elsewhere.

Originally posted by JanusRook However, this is how the laws created by society try to balance resisting sexual predation and also allowing those with sufficient maturity the freedom to enjoy consensual sex I would agree with you except under most laws two 15 year olds can have sex with each other and no repercussions can be taken. Are those 15 year olds sufficiently mature? How about a 17 year old the day before their birthday and a girl who just turned 16? Does he gain that much more maturity the next day?

The system is not perfect, to be sure. On the one hand you have a highly subjective philosophy which will usually differ from one individual to the next - people should have consensual sex when they are mature and we should also stop psychological predation. There are no objective measures for either of these things, so instead the law determines an arbitrary objective measure (age) which approximately translates into a way of judging these two things.

The alternative would be to have every single judge pass judgement on every case brought before them on the basis of its individual merits. However, magistrates are only human too and are subject to their own biases, life experience and personal attitudes - they are bound to come to decisions which will simply enrage the community. The justice system would break down under such conditions, and people would demand a consistent measure to determine correct behaviour. No, I don't think a person is much more mature the day they turn 17. But the alternative to a somewhat imperfect arbitrary measure (age) is a far more vague and impossible to abide by measure (the individual judgement of a magistrate). The system has its imperfections, but I don't see what would be better instead.

By the way (I know this is hijacking the point of the thread but...) I feel that the philosophy behind age of consent is more important than the laws created. And that age of consent should be up to the individuals participating whether than society as a whole.

If that were the case, a bond between a 12 and 20 year old would be permissable. Infact, why stop there. A 50 year old and a 12 year old should be perfectly fine. I think that on a subjective level, this is just going too far by almost everyone's standards.

Back on topic, how about this scenario a 15 year old boy molests his 11 year old cousin. Now under your definition the 15 year old isn't mature enough to make decisions based on sex so how should that situation be treated? Is he to be punished or is he not guilty by reason of immaturity? If he's to be punished than he obviously knew enough to do the act, so therefore 15 year olds can make informed decisions on sex (just not good ones).

Well, I didn't define responsibility and consent in binary like you are suggesting (they either are, or are not, able to make the decision and take responsibility). How I explained it was as a continuum, where as a child matures they are incrementally given greater decision making, responsibility and choice. So while the 15 year old may not be considered mature enough to be fully subject to the advances of a much older partner, on the continuum they are mature enough to realise that doing what you outlined to your own cousin is wrong.

The legal system reflects this continuum. Think of what punishment a 10 year old, 13 year old, 16 year old and 19 year old would receive if becoming sexual with an 11 year old cousin. The 10 year old would likely receive a heavy punishment from their parents, and otherwise be subject to "re-education" regarding what is and is not acceptable. The 13 year old would be expected to receive a tougher punishment, reflecting the expectation that they have advanced on their maturity continuum enough to really know that that molestation is wrong. A 16 year old could face juvenile detention, depending on the nature of the molestation. The 19 year old could very well face jail. So I think it is important to view this as being part of a continuum, rather than "is" or "isn't".

Also if child molestation is defined as anyone under 18 I'd say a lot of high school girls that make poor decisions fall under that umbrella, for example.*

Where I live, age of consent is 16, though in many parts of the US it is higher. I think anything above 16 is really pushing it in expecting 16-18 year olds to behave like saints.

As for high school students, well anyone who attended a co-ed school quickly realises that consensual sex goes on quite early with a few of the more adventurous students. And no one went to jail or got taken to court, in my experience. The answer to why is that the law itself, being imperfect, is moderated by people simply not taking recourse to it. So a 13 and 14 year old have sex; the only circumstance in which this will be reported is if an enraged parent finds out and goes to the cops, or if one of the pair feels especially jilted and decides to get one back on the other by going to the police.

This is evidence that while an arbitrary law exists which is not perfect, the law does not always apply because people don't invoke it. And this is just how it goes. People who are sufficiently enraged (either because what happened was awful, or because the person is hyper-sensitive) will bring the law into it, but the vast majority of the time the law plays no part. And so the high school girls keep on partying.


Edited by Constantine XI - 28-Sep-2007 at 01:38

When I think about sexual molestation, I tend to think about the elders of both the Hebrews as wanders in the desolation as well as the Moslem wanderers in the desolation, who, it seems offered a grasp of their "private parts" to "seal a contract", etc.! The word "loins" is approiate to describe such "deals" that seem to exist even now?