AmericasWheel

Originally posted by elenos Omg, you are as subtle as a one legged sailor on heat! What you call ignorance applies to every nation. Every good government on earth needs to bring about all those conditions and more. As personally upsetting as it may be to you, the real world facts don't lie. To talk about Columbian gold in any bar on earth, bar none, will immediately convince people you are not interested in talking about gold bullion on the stock market!

Originally posted by elenos So you think I don't know poverty and third world conditions? What can I say, I have lived among them. You misunderstand me there, I'm talking about what I have experienced in real life not in movies (reel life!).

Originally posted by elenos Like they say we cannot reinvent the wheel but we can reinvent ourselves! That's what I have been trying to say all through this thread. If the wheel was not invented in America they really did use the best of what they could in their circumstances. I have lived that way and see no reason why didn't in South America, but my suggestion of putting ourselves in their place and think of what could have been invented was trampled on.

Edited by pinguin - 29-Jul-2007 at 08:03

Pinguin - I'd agree with you on all those points except logic which I'm convinced should be in the previous list, although it depends upon what you define as logic. The usual definition seems to refer (for example) to developments in ancient Greece which still apply today, but only because we're applying the context of our culture to theirs, and it fits. One thing which annoys me about the common perception of ancient cultures in general (and by the way, I know this is not something you're doing, I'm making a general point) is the dismissal of everything under the heading of superstition, which is itself only truly possible when taking a very cursory look at the facts (human sacrifice, no wheel, worshipped animals blah blah blah) without examining underlying causes and comparing them to the present day (ie - we no longer sacrifice people, we are cultured, therefore they weren't). More or less everything I've investigated under the general heading of Mesoamerica is supported by a well-reasoned body of native thought. The Nahua conception of the tripartite soul for example, Jill Furst's book (History of the Soul in Ancient Mexico - Yale) left me in no doubt that their ideas were entirely valid in their time, and furthermore were derived from observation and conclusion. I suppose the point of what I'm saying is that (to oversimplify this for the sake of argument) if you believe that thunder is caused by roaring jaguars and live in a culture which lacks any means of testing the hypothesis (weather balloons, electronic equipment etc) then it's still a form of logic even if future generations will see much room for improvement. As I said before, Nezahualcoyotl and Einstien had the same type of brain. The latter knew his sums but the former wrote better poems.

WaaaH! Primal serpent myths as an illustration of volcanic activity. That is absolutely brilliant! I've ocasionally wondered at the ubiquity of such myths on a global scale and that is the finest, most credible idea I've come across by a long, long way. I tip my hat to you and your enquiring mind, sir! Seriously, I figured on something somewhere between the ridges on an alligators back looking somewhat mountainous and the (debatable) fear of serpents in some cultures, but that's a serious idea you have there. The last time I had this discussion, the other guy's well reasoned argument descended into crap about how the church promoted whaling so that we don't find out the "truth" about the common (whale-based) origin of world mythology.

Edited by Yaomitl - 29-Jul-2007 at 16:00

I'm a serious dragon freak myself and have never yet seen a explanation where I cry out - gotcha! Quetzalcoatl and the plumed serpent is a world away from Merlin and the dragon in Wales. The Welsh marshes have never been known as earthquake country, nor for active volcanoes either. Then there are the Chinese dragons. The whole Asiatic culture cares more for creatures they have never seen than the ones they have.