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The power of punjabis?

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  Quote singhh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The power of punjabis?
    Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 00:51
why are punjabis so strong strength wise compared with other indians??? is it because of the jatt blood they have?
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  Quote pumaaa123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 05:15
Do ban this hopeless forumer.... and one request to this same hopless.  there are hell lot of boards to spam in. leave this one.

Edited by pumaaa123 - 17-Jul-2007 at 05:16
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 05:38
Actually I've only seen the Pubjabis getting picked on for being small & weak. Although this thread is kind of inane, it can stay open for a while mainly because I have thought about the different social hierarchies and want to see what other people have noticed.

In Pakistan I have notices that Punjabis get picked on as the smallest and most peaceful of the ethnic groups (not saying thats true at all, but thats what the sterotype seems to be), in India on the other hand, punjabis tend to be the big strong folk.
Have you noticed these stereotypes? What do you think causes the difference between India and Pakistan?
Probably it is simply a case of the further west you go the taller and bigger the people become.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 06:41
Originally posted by singhh

why are punjabis so strong strength wise compared with other indians??? is it because of the jatt blood they have?
 
Could it be... because Jatt blood cells carries extra molecules of hemoglobin, coupled with their larger than average lungs sizes for the sub continent.
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  Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 15:56
Hello to every1... came across this site a few weeks back.. and am truly enjoying it..didnt know there was a South Asia section till a little while ago.. from the looks of it.. looks like many of you have been here for a while...so I thought I would give my lil intro before I get into the forray of things!....lol
 
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


In Pakistan I have notices that Punjabis get picked on as the smallest and most peaceful of the ethnic groups (not saying thats true at all, but thats what the sterotype seems to be), in India on the other hand, punjabis tend to be the big strong folk.
 
I wouldnt say that Panjabis are small.. they tend to be tall and rather on the loud side here in Pakistan where they represent about 45% of the population.  In india, there a small minority probably less than 5%.. but I do admit that in Pakistan they sure do get picked on alot for being the majority as politicians of other provinces like to blame everything on them..lol! but I guess this is true for any majority ethnic group in a multicultural country.
 
THe smallest and most 'docile' people in Pakistan will probably be the migrants from India(known here sometimes  as the Mohajir or Urdu speakers who represent abt 5-6% of our population).
 
 Gilgitis here in Pakistan are often small physically..but they are far from tame.. there some of the wildest fighters i've ever met!!
 
Plus I think that due to the fact that Panjabis in Pakistan are bordering the western provinces, and there is some Pashtuns as well as some Baloch who've settled and become assimilated in Panjab further gives them some pretty tough bloodlines to mix up with!! (sorry about the bias, but we mountain people are known for being tough!!lol).  Also, I've heard that most foreign invaders from Central Asia and the West tended to settle in the very fertile province of Panjab further giving them a good mix of genes.  this could possibly explain for their apparent strenght, but I guess it depends who you compare them too.   in india they represent the 4% exception to the general population and are thus quite distinct and prominent.....whereas in Pakistan, they are representative of the average population, with Pasthuns, Baloch, Afghans(from Afghanistan) and some 'Tribes' from the Northern Areas being known as exceptional at just above a quarter % of the population.  So what may be an exception in one country may be the norm in the other.


Edited by MarcoPolo - 19-Jul-2007 at 16:05
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 16:24
Well I have lived in Pakistan for a long time and do really feal that you can not find that though and warrior type or you can say bully type Punjabi as you could find in India, in Pakistan due to more facilitations than the other ethnics, they are more the educated type of people than the fighting.
They would like to resolve a fight rather with words than hands and try mostly to avoid a fight and settle it down, which makes them soft in nature but that doesn't mean all of the Punjabis are the same.
In Pakistan the only Pujabis that I came accross who dared to resolve things rather with hand than words were the Gujurs mostly from Gujranwale and Gujrat cities.
 
Otherwise to be honest I had some fights with some Punjabis when I was studying in my 12th standard, and I felt as if I was a hero of an action movie and all others fighting me and my fellows (who were some Afghans and some Balochs) acted the same as a villian would do. lol
 
Anyway no discimination to any ethnic or cast, I still think Punjabis of Pakistan are more soft hearted which is a very good thing for a human being, and one thing is for sure that what you have in your blood that will talk.... so as dear MarcoPolo pointed out that now the ethnics are getting mixed with each other so the new generations may act some how newer than their elders.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2007 at 00:25
It depends on individuals. Musharraf is a muhajir, the docile people of Pakistan, however he is a commando and as people in the army know, he always had a reputation for being a brawler.
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  Quote AlokaParyetra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2007 at 09:55
Hey, Musharraf being a muhajir, that must really get the conspiracy nutjobs going, right? Are there any theories floating around of Musharraf still being loyal to India or something like that?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2007 at 10:20
This is Pakistan, we don't judge somebody on their ethnicity, but their performance. He is not the first Muhajir, and won't be the last either. And since he fought 2 war againts India, I hope we get more men that loyal to the eastern neighbour.
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  Quote AlokaParyetra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2007 at 10:24
Well, i was not questioning the general populace's treatment of Muhajirs, i was simply asking about the few who do choose to generalize, and if, as a result, there were any conspiracy theories.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 00:32
Originally posted by AlokaParyetra

Hey, Musharraf being a muhajir, that must really get the conspiracy nutjobs going, right? Are there any theories floating around of Musharraf still being loyal to India or something like that?


This is muhajir Altaf Hussein, one of Mushy's pet poodles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0awgOqb8wWw



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  Quote AlokaParyetra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 11:21
I watched the video and read the comments. Unfortunately, i do not speak Hindi or Urdu (growing up in the States does not exactly help one learn the languages of their motherland), so i understood little of what is said.

A lot of the comments, though, talked about MQM and how it had betrayed Pakistan. What is MQM?

P.S. I know this is a thread about Punjabis, but that topic seemed to have died out.


Edited by AlokaParyetra - 22-Jul-2007 at 11:24
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 15:16
You only need to read the title of the video which is in English to know what he says. MQM is mohajir qom movement, a fringe separatist political party in pakistan with heavy ties to RAW that had in the past been involved in political campaigns to separate karachi from pakistan. They recently changed their named to Muttahida Qom movement. Point is, your ridicule of "conspiracy theories" about indian immigrants in pakistan is ridiculous in itself when considering the ground realities.
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  Quote CHAUDRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 19:49
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Actually I've only seen the Pubjabis getting picked on for being small & weak. Although this thread is kind of inane, it can stay open for a while mainly because I have thought about the different social hierarchies and want to see what other people have noticed.

In Pakistan I have notices that Punjabis get picked on as the smallest and most peaceful of the ethnic groups (not saying thats true at all, but thats what the sterotype seems to be), in India on the other hand, punjabis tend to be the big strong folk.
Have you noticed these stereotypes? What do you think causes the difference between India and Pakistan?
Probably it is simply a case of the further west you go the taller and bigger the people become.
 

I actually really can't think of somebody, in pakistan, being picked on for being small and weak and punjabi?

where would that be? Lahore? (can u imagine that) islamabad? karachi? or maybe gujjar/jatt heartland gujranwala, gujrat, sialkot etc?

 

Punjabi's do have more peaceful image of whole of pakistan (also the punjab province, as a place), but the reason behind it is,

punjabi's never fought a sepatarist or some kind of other war with the state, in contrast with all the other regions (i.e. nwfp-baluchistan-sindh-karachi)

And as u maybe well aware about it, punjabi's feel very much pakistani.

Punjabi's don't tend to keep tribal lashkar's (anymore), because they see the pakistan army as their army. Hence u have got "demilitarization" of punjab.

Punjabi's generally, martially tend to be equalls to pakhtun's only, with whom they form the pakistan army.

The different punjabi tribes, like jutt, gujjar, raja, awan, gakhar, and many more small or big tribes,  still take big proud in their martial history.

U can't take some malnourished punjabi (and their maybe alot, according to the UNESCO/WHO) for mainstay punjabi, like some pathetic people did ("who picked on punjab's for being small and weak"), if it really occurred in pakistan.

About the jatt's reputation in pakistan, referring to singh. The jatt very much hold their warrior status to this day, but not in areas in pakistan where they aren't heard of, like nwfp, baluchistan, sindh. Particularly in the area between Lahore, gujrat, Islamabad, and then westward to sialkot, south to Lahore. This area (adjoining indian punjab) is where the jutts are most visible, also the gujjars.

One jutt tribe holds the biggest nr of seats (as one tribe) in the punjab assembly: cheema. The most important (chief minister)one is held by another powerful jutt tribe: warraich. But these people don't shout about their ancestry anymore, they want votes, by shouting jutt they would get only a small percentage of total pakistan. Also it is a fact that while in idian punjab jutts would be a majority (50 % sikhs being jutt), in pakistan they aren't. Maybe the biggest minority, probably because of more versatile ethinic make up of pakistani/punjab (being on edge of invading route- and all). There is no majority "tribe' of punjab.

 

I think the punjabi's have had the most peaceful image withing pakistan, because:

- it's terrain (punjab province) has not seen anykind of rebel activities/big public unrest. U feel safe in lahore, anytime

- punjabi's are quite passionate pakistani's, and don't feel that much "unattended to" by islamabad (unlike baluchistan for example). They don't shout out their "punjabiness", like their counterparts in india.

- Punjabi's worked for integrating/uniting pakistan more, as a result they adopted heavily "pakistani"- things: punjabi parents bringing their childre up with urdu as mother-tongue, rather than punjabi.

- I think punjabi's in general are very warm-hearted social people. I can assure u of their openness/hospitality (differend kind than the pashtun, with the emphasize on openness). The punjabis have a relaxed kind of reputation also,  humor taking an important place in their life.

 
Bottom line: punjabis in pakistan feel content being pakistani, and even want to shed parts of their traditional culture (i.e. north west indian culture), in order to become more pakistani.

In contrast to the punjabis in india, where we have seen a movement from the start (1947) going anti-delhi. In the beginning they were fighting for their separate sikh-dominated state (because they wanted punjabi, as official language, but this was impossible due to majority hindu-punjabis, speaking Harjanvi/hindi), they got it: punjab split ito punjab and haryana.

Then in the eighties there was armed uprising  demanding independent "khalistan". This, combining with the fact that sikhs/punjabis have always had a disproportionate representation in indian army (british-era legacy: dispropriate recrutation from punjab) and indian filmindustry (believe it or not, dispropriate nr hails from punjab again) indian state of punjab has had the highest per head ppp rate for a long time, which results in less malnourishment and more healthy people, gives them this image,

IMO

 

 

P.s. I apologise sincerely my friends, if i have wasted ur time Wink.

 

 



Edited by CHAUDRY - 30-Jul-2007 at 21:33
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 02:12
Well the FRontier has never had a secessionist movement either. Or Kashmir (Pakistani). Though you should remember that of the Pakistani province of Punjab, only the areas near the border, and central Punjab, are really Punjab proper, the South is Siraki land (and Multan is v sindhi to boot), the weat is Pakhtun/ Baloch, while the North is Potohar.
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  Quote CHAUDRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 06:48
Originally posted by Sparten

Well the FRontier has never had a secessionist movement either. Or Kashmir (Pakistani). Though you should remember that of the Pakistani province of Punjab, only the areas near the border, and central Punjab, are really Punjab proper, the South is Siraki land (and Multan is v sindhi to boot), the weat is Pakhtun/ Baloch, while the North is Potohar.
 
Well, i didn't say secessionist movement necessarily, but also major "public unrest", like loads of suicide attacks on army etc.
True that kashmir didn't had any...Ermm  (but i wasn't arguing about that all regions per se had some kindof negative movement, more about the general content situation within  punjab vs rest of country).
Siraiki belt may make up c.a. 15% of punjab, potohar basically punjabi (dialect) (sure they have some distinctiveness, but more akin to punjab than other). Even azad kashmir partly, punjabi (their own dialect "mirpuri') speaking.
Baloch have sizeable, to some extent, population in southwest, don't know exact figures, still may not be more than 2/3 % of punjab population. They may inhabite significant piece of land geographically (like they do in Baluchistan), but certainly not the more populated areas. The most populated (and concequently industrialised) area lies around lahore, north to islamabad and sialkot. and from islamabad westward towards peshawar.
All in all even if u count the baluch and the seraiki people out, the rest still comprises about 80% of punjab population, not to mention  azad kashmir, and nwfp (northwards from islamabad) punjabi population.
 
punjabi spoken as mothertongue by around 45% of pakistan population.
total siraiki speaking 11%
total baluchi speaking from whole pakistan, not only punjab: 3.5%
 
Nrs speak for themself
 
 
Also still a debate about seraiki, even hindko, let alone the more close potohar. :
  • Punjabi dialects
    • Lahori - "The standard Punjabi language" and spoken in the heart of Punjab where most of the Punjabi population lives. The main districts are Lahore, Sheikhupura, Gujaranwala and Sialkot.
    • Jhangvi or Jangli - Spoken in the central Pakistani Punjab, stretches from districts Khanewal to Jhang and includes Faisalabad and Chiniot.
    • Shahpuri - Spoken in Sargodha, Khushab and Mandi Bahawaldin districts.
    • Pothowari - The area where Pothowari is spoken extends in the north from Azad Kashmir (Mirpur) to as far south as Jhelum, Gujar Khan, Chakwal and Rawalpindi.
    • Hindko - Spoken in districs of Peshawar, Attock, Nowshehra, Kohat, Mardan, Mansehra, Abbotabad, Haripur and Murree.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Pakistan

     


  • Edited by CHAUDRY - 25-Jul-2007 at 06:53
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      Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 13:48

    Potohatri is near unintelliable for a person from Lahore.

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      Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2007 at 15:09
    I think the Seraiki belt is often under appreciated as they represent a transitional group between Sindh in the south and the Panjab province to the North.  Also, what is not mention is that they also are transitional with groups to the West such as the Baloch and the Pashtun.  I think this has led them to be identified with either one group or another as various groups claim them as their own.  Many Pashtun also claim Seraiki as being more similar to them.  I think more understanding and appreciation of Seraiki culture and language needs to be undertaken as they do have many distinct qualities from all the groups which 'claim' them as their own.
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