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Scheich
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Topic: Germany vs. USA 1914(Duel) Posted: 08-May-2007 at 12:58 |
What do you think?
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pekau
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Posted: 08-May-2007 at 21:12 |
German Empire did possess among the finest army in the early 1900s, but I honestly don't think Germans would have been able to 'conquer' America.
I assumed that you are just talking about German Army. In order for Germans to invade America, they must secure most of the European superpowers, namely France, Russia and Britain. It is possible that German army would be able to gain Britain's naval power and massive manpower of France and Russia. If that was the case, then Germans could win.
But we are just talking about German army. The reason why Americans played little part in WWI is because they had to arm the soldiers and send them across the Atlantic. Since their homeland is being invaded, there will be a lot of patriotic Americans willling to fight street by street, just like in Stalingrad. American soldiers no longer have to be shipped across Atlantic. Canadians would offer serious aid to make sure that Canada herself do not become the battlefield. German Army alone will have difficult time to fight against horde of Americans/Canadians. I suspect that in the beginning, they will massacre Americans but Germans will have to retreat... just like how Germans fought against Americans.
But it is a difficult question. I find it hard to believe how Americans would avoid war if Germans conquer much of Europe. They would aid the Allies before this becomes the reality.
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pekau
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Posted: 08-May-2007 at 21:22 |
Forgot to mention the other case... Americans would not win in European soil because Americans are busy trying to develope their own massive land. They might place troops in valuable locations close to the Atlantic/Mediteranean Sea, but Americans are not interested in conquering Germany, or anywhere outside of North America. Of course, this may not be the case these days...
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gcle2003
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Posted: 09-May-2007 at 08:28 |
In 1914 nobody moved an army across the Atlantic without British permission.
Even if the British stayed out of it, the war would have been a war of navies, not a a war of armies. I doubt very much if either side in those circumstances could have shipped an army across the Atlantic.
Rather as, in 1940, the war between Britain and Germany became a war of air forces.
It might be worth remembering that one of the things that eventually did bring the US into the war was the Zimmerman telegram and the threat it revealed of a German-Mexican-Japanese alliance against the US - a much more interesting scenario.
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Paul
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Posted: 09-May-2007 at 09:17 |
Edited by Paul - 09-May-2007 at 14:41
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Scheich
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Posted: 09-May-2007 at 11:59 |
I mean a duell(without Canada or Royal navy).
I think that the German HSF was able to defeat US-Navy and then the Germans are able to bring a lot of troops to USA before the big US-economy is able to recruit and produce large armed forces!
But a duel was unrealistic, because the Kaiser was too stupid(he provoked UK and Russia).
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Scheich
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Posted: 09-May-2007 at 12:08 |
I knew the Zimmermann telegramm. Was the mexican army really able to rush the USA?
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pekau
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Posted: 09-May-2007 at 20:30 |
Originally posted by Scheich
I knew the Zimmermann telegramm. Was the mexican army really able to rush the USA? |
You think?
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pekau
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Posted: 09-May-2007 at 20:37 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
In 1914 nobody moved an army across the Atlantic without British permission.
Even if the British stayed out of it, the war would have been a war of navies, not a a war of armies. I doubt very much if either side in those circumstances could have shipped an army across the Atlantic.
Rather as, in 1940, the war between Britain and Germany became a war of air forces.
It might be worth remembering that one of the things that eventually did bring the US into the war was the Zimmerman telegram and the threat it revealed of a German-Mexican-Japanese alliance against the US - a much more interesting scenario. |
If the Germans are ready to launch Operation Barbarossa - like invasion against US, they need to take down Britain first. So, to answer this question... Britain either have to leave Germans alone or are already conquered. Britain is not going to let Germans attack the US. Their lives are at stake. Supplies of food, weapons... and everything Britain take it for granted might be at risk. Even if the trade stops for a week, it would affect British economy greatly.
Remember that Americans weren't even ready for WWI even when the Zimmerman telegram was released in public. Their "navy" was small and poorly made compared to German's navy. It would be like Chinese fishing boat against USS Interprise.
Just between US and Germany, the question of sea supremacy is a joke. Germans will pown Americans to the ground.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 10-May-2007 at 11:35 |
Originally posted by pekau
Just between US and Germany, the question of sea supremacy is a joke. Germans will pown Americans to the ground. |
As of 1914 that is pretty well true. The German fleet at Coromandel even managed to inflict the first multi-ship defeat on the Royal Navy for some 150 years.
However, the difference in population between the two countries was already quite large - some 100 million to 65 million - but possibly more importantly the US is vast[1].
I would see the situation being rather like that in the war of 1812, where the British were pretty free to attack and land troops wherever they wanted, but unable to occupy significant amounts of territory for long.[2] German naval power would put them in that position in this scenario.
In the end, as in 1812-16, the two sides would probably sooner or later faced up to the question "What on earth are we fighting over?", realised it was ridiculous, and stopped.
The most important consequence otherwise would of course have been the continuance of British domination for a great deal longer than actually happened, since Germany and the US would have exhausted themselves fighting while France and Britain (pretty certainly) made piles of money out of selling arms - as the US did in real history.
[1] And was just as vast then .
[2] Of course in 1812 the British were engaged in fighting Napoleon, but the American war went on after Waterloo.
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pekau
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Posted: 10-May-2007 at 13:57 |
Very true, gcle2003. That's why I said either German Empire would have had to conquer entire most of Europe (Which must include Britain). I don't see how Britain would let Germans to hurt their supply center so freely when they possesses the finest navy in the world, as I have mentioned before.
I wonder, what if US made huge progress with the ironclad ships used in the civil wars? How effective would ironclad ships be in 1914 against the warships that that time?
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gcle2003
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Posted: 11-May-2007 at 05:09 |
Not effective at all. Naval architecture had been revolutionised in the first decade of the century with the arrival of the 'Dreadnought' and a vast increase in the size and range of guns as well as tonnage and speed.
In fact the warships of 1914-18 were still viable when WW2 started and would never really be beaten for surface-to-surface warfare with guns and torpedoes. While submarines became a threat to all surface vessels, only the coming of aircraft and later missiles really put an end to the dominance of the battleship.
Edited by gcle2003 - 11-May-2007 at 05:09
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ChickenShoes
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Posted: 17-May-2007 at 14:16 |
How is this even an issue? American troops didn't even have their own masks and guns, they were equipped with French utilities. They just supplied money, otherwise they were way behind the times aside from navally. America would have lost with minimal naval engagement and on land, they would have been embarrassed.
Edited by ChickenShoes - 17-May-2007 at 14:18
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