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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gun Control/Gun Ownership
    Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 15:09
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Originally posted by DukeC

Just get an Idaho burgler alarm, it plays a recording of a shotgun shell being loaded when someone tries to break in.Big%20smile
 
LOL That's pretty cool actually...LOL
 
It's an old joke in north Idaho, people there have the reputation of being some of the biggest gun nuts in America.Smile
 
Unfortunately the lastest mass shooting was there a couple of weeks ago. One civilian who responded was himself shot four times, having a gun doesn't make you invulnerable.
 
 
 


Edited by DukeC - 01-Jun-2007 at 15:26
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 17:49
Never said there had to be, did I? He makes it out as those we're in the wild west, brings up how horrible the idea of gun ownership is to the point he wouldn't even trust HIMSELF. So why would you choose to live in a country where the opinion of the citizens is beyond complete opposite of what you feel safety is.

Thanks for the warm welcome

I have no problem of safety considering that I'm a young white wealthy male not drinking and not involved in alchool, nobody I know here has a gun, I live in a safe neighbourhood with one of the best police departments in the world and a liberal culture meaning that firearms are comparatively rare here. Beside, I behave very safely, I do consider that the best answer to violence is running away screaming and I practice daily kravmaga. So no problem of safety for ME thx.

I'm not picking on the US for the sake of it. Every country has its fair share of problems but the ones of the US are more widely known and have a somewhat cinegenic flavour (gun control, abortion, illegal immigrants, death penaly). Anyhow they are more fun to discuss than the excess spending of the Italian administration or the problems related to corporate taxation in France.

Moreover the US constitution is limited to the 2nd amendment. And I have no problems with the rest of it. My life ain't locked in my holster. I love this country and I'm thanksfull for its openness and freedom. That is what matter. Is it perfect? No, but I'd rather live in the wild West (I've never branded the US as such) with my partner and being able to start my company than otherwise.

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 18:12
I have no problem of safety considering that I'm a young white wealthy male not drinking and not involved in alchool, nobody I know here has a gun, I live in a safe neighbourhood with one of the best police departments in the world and a liberal culture meaning that firearms are comparatively rare here. Beside, I behave very safely, I do consider that the best answer to violence is running away screaming and I practice daily kravmaga. So no problem of safety for ME thx.
Good, to me that proves then even with the 2nd Amendment in place, it's still safe to walk with out looking over your shoulder, not that I ever had to. And I live in a area with a pretty good percentage of gun owners, and not really conservative at all.
I'm not picking on the US for the sake of it. Every country has its fair share of problems but the ones of the US are more widely known and have a somewhat cinegenic flavour (gun control, abortion, illegal immigrants, death penaly). Anyhow they are more fun to discuss than the excess spending of the Italian administration or the problems related to corporate taxation in France.
It's the way you have been putting, even saying you can't even trust yourself with a weapon. Americans feel confident they can, and we feel we have the right to own one.
Moreover the US constitution is limited to the 2nd amendment. And I have no problems with the rest of it. My life ain't locked in my holster. I love this country and I'm thanksfull for its openness and freedom. That is what matter. Is it perfect? No, but I'd rather live in the wild West (I've never branded the US as such) with my partner and being able to start my company than otherwise.
You basicly described it all as one without the name.
I honestly think it's great your here, and I do welcome you. But the way you say it isn't safe here, it made me wonder why you'd risk safety to be here by the way you describe it.
I don't mind you criticizing our laws, but when you make it out as though you can step foot outside without worrying about being shot, then I have to ask why you'd even bother living here.
But if you say your community is safe and without guns and you love it there, I'm glad that you found a piece of America that you can enjoy. And to me that shows even with the 2nd Amendment being one of the laws of the land, you can still find your place here and not worry about it. But I never have.
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 21:09
I'm in the middle on this subject, while I don't support a ban on guns, I think some control is neccessary. The fact is there are people out there who shouldn't have access to guns. The VTI shooter is a glaring example but there are others. The moron who shot the "intruder" in Atlanta a few years ago should never have been able to possess a .44 magnum. According to him, the guy he shot was dressed wierd, acting funny and didn't stop when he yelled "HALT!". Then again, it was Halloween and the shooting victim was a Japanese exchange student in a costume who had limited knowledge of english.
 
It's also important to understand that it's not just about culture and individual freedom, it's also about big business. The NRA isn't just composed of concerned citizens, it's also used as a front for the gun industry which sells close to 5 million guns in the U.S. every year. Some of these weapons are designed for street warfare, with rapid fire, compact size and ammo capacity of 30 or more rounds. The gun industry is right up there with tobacco and oil when it comes to social responsibility.
 
How many aspects of our lives do we live based on conditions present 200 years ago. We regulate transportation, drugs, healthcare, food, construction and many more things in an effort to control some of the more excessive pratices that individuals or groups can sometimes engage in. People used to be able to order through the mail Thompson sub-machine guns when they first became available in the 1920s, giving us Bonny and Clyde, Machinegun Kelly, John Dillinger, the St. Valentines Day massacre and more. It's no longer possible to purchase fully automatic weapons because of the social cost. Clearly there needs to be changes made to control the level of gun violence in the U.S..
 
If people want to live up to the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, then form a militia, obtain automatic weapons and even light AT and MANPADs. You could base it on other militia systems where the weapons are kept secured when not in use and ammo is tightly controlled. The 2nd. Amendment wasn't meant to provide every citizen with the ability to use deadly force to settle personal disputes the way it's often practiced in America. It was intended to provide the people with the ability to protect itself from threats either from it's own government or from outside.


Edited by DukeC - 01-Jun-2007 at 21:27
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 22:14
When you say rapid fire, do you mean automatic, or just semi?
 
And with the VT incident, Virginia has the most relaxed gun laws in the US. Which I'm sure that'll be changing now.
 
Not every citizen used a gun to solve a dispute, infact, it's no where near the majority of Americans who own weapons. If that were true, my town and the towns around me would be painted red.
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 00:38
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

When you say rapid fire, do you mean automatic, or just semi?
 
And with the VT incident, Virginia has the most relaxed gun laws in the US. Which I'm sure that'll be changing now.
 
Not every citizen used a gun to solve a dispute, infact, it's no where near the majority of Americans who own weapons. If that were true, my town and the towns around me would be painted red.
 
Semi-auto, though I think it's not hard to get kits to modify them to full auto. And remember that modern M-16s aren't full auto either, they fire semi or three round burst.
 
It's a minority that misuse the priviledge, but it's the high prevelance of guns that make it so easy.


Edited by DukeC - 02-Jun-2007 at 01:07
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 14:17
Originally posted by Genghis

Originally posted by Cezar

Genghis, are you really readin everything that we are posting or are you just enjoying yourself in quoting what you want?
What's this supposed to mean:
 
If you want "protection" get yourself useful to the society!.
That doesn't even make sense.?
 
[QUOTE]I'm no different than outlaws because I own a weapon legally?  That makes absolutely no sense.
 
You are basically not different from an outlaw. He's wielding a gun and so  do you (actually, the last time you were bragging about carrying two). So, you have a gun and so does he. You have a Python, he has a ... Glock, what makes the difference between the two of you except the fact (that I've allready stated) that you have not offended the law and he has/is/has?
You seem to enjoy yourself wielding a gun.
I have a sabre. A Shin-to (I cannot affford a Ko-to). It stays at my dojo (it's not a dojo but we call it that way). I walk bearhanded in the night in Bucharest because I'm  certain that the chance of being threatened with a gun is minimal. Although guns are available at a lower price than you might imagine (and I'm talking about the real stuff man, like AK's, or Tokarev's, or Makarov's - an AK47 is around 250$ - three 30 packs included) I'm pretty sure that noone will pull one on me tonight. And the crime rate is growing in Romania. Yet, there are only victims of pickpockets or some other things like that. The "bad stuff" is getting lower. Maybe because even the offenders of the law are getting tired of making the news.
To be honest, I'd rather have all my money stolen than killing the guy who did it.
You should really modify that 2nd amm or article, whatever. It should look like this: WE, THE US CITIZENS WOULD NEVER GIVE UP OUR RIGHT TO BEAR WEAPONS BECAUSE WE LOOOOOVE IT!. AND THAT'S ONLY FOR US (AS IN WE), THE REST OF THE WORLD SHOULD MIND OF IT'S OWN BUSINESS!.
That would be no trouble except the fact is that the US are what they are and we others look at you and wonder how come that you turned the eagle into a dragon?
 
*I'm not yet against the USA. Looks like two words of this sentence are about to be gone.
 
 
 
Saying I'm similar to an outlaw because I own a gun is a completely meaningless statement.  Many outlaws also like to eat steak, I like steak, therefore I am just like an outlaw.  Whether or not what I do is similar to what an outlaw does does not make that action right or wrong, or anything other than a similarity, the action is either right or wrong in and of itself regardless of who performs it.
 
Well, I didn't called you an outlaw I just stated that you and him/her are potentially the same. The fact that you breathe doesn't make you a bacteria.
You should have understood that I'm mostly intrigued in why does gun ownership seems so ... american.
The balance is broken, like it or not. If I, a citizen of a foreign country, come to the USA, I am not allowed to wield a gun. You, the people out there, are. So I'm afraid that if I say something wrong, since I'm a foriegner, I could end up injured just because the citizen mistook my intentions.
On the other hand, you can't have a gun here (as a regular guy). So the only difference is language, customs, etc. The chance of you getting shot in Romania might be higher if some outlaws consider you to be a target (a wealthy stranger). But, believe me, mostly they use no letal approaches to their targets, it's counterproductive to use force.
You may say that gunownership is an internal issue of the USA but I think even you must realize that USA are not just USA. They are the leading power of the whole world and if the citizens of her don't care about what other people say then they are just calling for it. Just remember that our great leader Ceausescu kept on stating that what happens inside a country is internal affairs, the other states should not interfere. That way, the 3RD Reich might have lived 1000 years.
The 2nd Amm, like it or not, it's not just a problem of the USA, it's a problem for the whole world. So is death penalty, abortion, etc. What you do out there is, off course, primarily your job. So is it when you elect your President.
Now, seeing the guy who you put in charge and what he's done, how can you expect us other believe that you are more responsible when you stroll on the streets carrying guns.
I'm not afraid of the USA being the Wild West I'm afraid of her being the West Side Story.
 
*Oh, I must admit that I'm a little (maybe more than a littleEmbarrassed) paranoid. We have a saying in our job: everyone has commited at least a fraud, they just don't know it.
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 18:25
Originally posted by DukeC

I'm in the middle on this subject, while I don't support a ban on guns, I think some control is neccessary. The fact is there are people out there who shouldn't have access to guns. The VTI shooter is a glaring example but there are others. The moron who shot the "intruder" in Atlanta a few years ago should never have been able to possess a .44 magnum. According to him, the guy he shot was dressed wierd, acting funny and didn't stop when he yelled "HALT!". Then again, it was Halloween and the shooting victim was a Japanese exchange student in a costume who had limited knowledge of english.
 
It's also important to understand that it's not just about culture and individual freedom, it's also about big business. The NRA isn't just composed of concerned citizens, it's also used as a front for the gun industry which sells close to 5 million guns in the U.S. every year. Some of these weapons are designed for street warfare, with rapid fire, compact size and ammo capacity of 30 or more rounds. The gun industry is right up there with tobacco and oil when it comes to social responsibility.
 
How many aspects of our lives do we live based on conditions present 200 years ago. We regulate transportation, drugs, healthcare, food, construction and many more things in an effort to control some of the more excessive pratices that individuals or groups can sometimes engage in. People used to be able to order through the mail Thompson sub-machine guns when they first became available in the 1920s, giving us Bonny and Clyde, Machinegun Kelly, John Dillinger, the St. Valentines Day massacre and more. It's no longer possible to purchase fully automatic weapons because of the social cost. Clearly there needs to be changes made to control the level of gun violence in the U.S..
 
If people want to live up to the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, then form a militia, obtain automatic weapons and even light AT and MANPADs. You could base it on other militia systems where the weapons are kept secured when not in use and ammo is tightly controlled. The 2nd. Amendment wasn't meant to provide every citizen with the ability to use deadly force to settle personal disputes the way it's often practiced in America. It was intended to provide the people with the ability to protect itself from threats either from it's own government or from outside.


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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 19:41
Well, I didn't called you an outlaw I just stated that you and him/her are potentially the same.
Alot of people get stabbed, they may not die, but it too is common. When ever you pick up a knife, does that put you in the same spot as these "outlaws"?
The balance is broken, like it or not. If I, a citizen of a foreign country, come to the USA, I am not allowed to wield a gun. You, the people out there, are. So I'm afraid that if I say something wrong, since I'm a foriegner, I could end up injured just because the citizen mistook my intentions.
Do people get that quick to anger where you live that they threaten your life over anything that angers them? I don't own a gun, and neither do any of my friends. Yet we've all angered someone before, but we weren't threatened. Unless your looking into getting drugs and pissing off a dealer, you really have nothing to worry about. The only person that was related to me in any shape or form was a old class mate that I didn't even talk to once. He was shot because he told a potential buyer of another deal not to buy it because he had better stuff. So right their he created a confrontation in whats a pretty dark proffession if you want to call it that.
You may say that gunownership is an internal issue of the USA but I think even you must realize that USA are not just USA. They are the leading power of the whole world and if the citizens of her don't care about what other people say then they are just calling for it.
We understand our laws exist in our borders, and we abide to other countries' laws, which say that we can't have guns. I think most Americans are fine with that.
The 2nd Amm, like it or not, it's not just a problem of the USA, it's a problem for the whole world. So is death penalty, abortion, etc.
No, the 2nd is a problem, only for those who want to get rid of it, which is not the majority of Americans.
Now, seeing the guy who you put in charge and what he's done, how can you expect us other believe that you are more responsible when you stroll on the streets carrying guns.
We had guns longer then we had Bush in power. Besides, not all States won him the electorates, and not all citizens voted for him. There maybe somethings that most Americans agree on, and thats usually what we feel is American to us. But for the majority of things, we all very greatly.
*Oh, I must admit that I'm a little (maybe more than a littleEmbarrassed) paranoid.
I could tell, and trust me, droves of American citizens won't be raiding your town with guns blasting.Tongue
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 22:33
Give me a break with the American-ness. Many American are pro-control or even anti-gun (mayor Bloomberg for instance).

When it comes to the argument only-bad-guys-gets-nailed, the figures I've posted about under-14 and inter-family murder rates indicates the contrary.

Cezar's quite right when he says that the US are a role model for the world, be it through Hollywood or academic reviews. In a sense, with great power comes great responsibility.

Finally, I find it irritating that you (by you I mean the AE pro-gun lobbyWink) constantly refuse to answer the points I'm maing:
- Guns are a inter-state matter (90% of guns involved in an homicide in the state of NY had been bought of the state; NYT of today),
- Lets never forget that a gun kills and that necessarily increasing their number increases the risks,
- Whatever the pragmatic reason given (self defense or anti-tyranny better option are available) NYT of yesterday: 80% of the death of US soldiers (poor devils) last May were caused by IEDs (50-70% in other months).
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 17:24
Give me a break with the American-ness. Many American are pro-control or even anti-gun (mayor Bloomberg for instance).
Baseball and Applepie are also considered Ameircan, I don't watch baseball. The 2nd Amendment is American.
When it comes to the argument only-bad-guys-gets-nailed, the figures I've posted about under-14 and inter-family murder rates indicates the contrary.
they were also about having guns in the home. Cezar was saying how he won't have a gun if he comes here, so he won't have to worry.
Cezar's quite right when he says that the US are a role model for the world, be it through Hollywood or academic reviews.
Yeah, we're the role model when you need to support your point. Any other thread and everyone would be arguing the opposite and how stupid Hollywood and our other big exports are.
In a sense, with great power comes great responsibility.
Why, are other countries making laws like the 2nd Amendment now?
- Guns are a inter-state matter (90% of guns involved in an homicide in the state of NY had been bought of the state; NYT of today),
What do you want me to say?
- Lets never forget that a gun kills and that necessarily increasing their number increases the risks,
Why would the amount increase anymore now? If anything, laws have gotten more strict, not lenient.

 
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 04:29
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Give me a break with the American-ness. Many American are pro-control or even anti-gun (mayor Bloomberg for instance).
Baseball and Applepie are also considered Ameircan, I don't watch baseball. The 2nd Amendment is American.
 
Disapprove Oh, the arrogance. Apple pie was around in these parts for centuries before the US even existed! Whatever gave you the idea you are the only one who makes apple pie? Ridiculous. Tongue

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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 11:17
Anyway I prefer "tartes tatin"

er well a bit far from the argument


Baseball and Applepie are also considered Ameircan, I don't watch baseball. The 2nd Amendment is American.
And is it un-American to require kids to play with wood bates and not dangerous aluminum ones? I wasn't talking about the 2nd Amdt I was talking about the over-use of guns.

hey were also about having guns in the home. Cezar was saying how he won't have a gun if he comes here, so he won't have to worry.
Policy-making is not about yourself but what is the best option for the community.

Yeah, we're the role model when you need to support your point. Any other thread and everyone would be arguing the opposite and how stupid Hollywood and our other big exports are.
The US could be a stupid role model Wink But more seriously, the US are very often used as a model for policy-makers and opinion-makers (see Nicolas Sarkozy in France). Besides soft power is also very important (gang culture ain't limited to the American continent, there is a massive hiphop culture in the poorest neighbourhoods from Paris to Lagos. It doesn't mean that the US gun culture is responsible for the level of violence in these places but it doesn't help.

Why, are other countries making laws like the 2nd Amendment now?
It is not about legal theory but about daily practice.

What do you want me to say?
I was saying that to answer Genghis about state comparison.

Why would the amount increase anymore now? If anything, laws have gotten more strict, not lenient.
More strict? What about the amendment preventing police to exchange interstate information about gun sale to criminal?
Beside there are 4million guns sold every year in the country, if we consider (which must be wrong) that they are simply replacing old one banning the sale (hypothetically) would decrease the number of guns by 50% in 25 years. Not mentioning that as the population grows the rate of prevalence of guns would clearly plummet.

Nothing to say about the other forms of defense?


Edited by Maharbbal - 06-Jun-2007 at 11:21
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 12:59
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

 
Disapprove Oh, the arrogance. Apple pie was around in these parts for centuries before the US even existed! Whatever gave you the idea you are the only one who makes apple pie? Ridiculous. Tongue
 
Would it make you feel any better to know the complete saying is, "as American as mom and apple pie".Smile


Edited by DukeC - 06-Jun-2007 at 13:00
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 14:55
S&D, I'm glad you joined us on this thread!
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Well, I didn't called you an outlaw I just stated that you and him/her are potentially the same.
Alot of people get stabbed, they may not die, but it too is common. When ever you pick up a knife, does that put you in the same spot as these "outlaws"?
If I buy a knife and wear it I'm similar to an outlaw. If I buy a knife and I'm leaving it at home that's another story. BTW, if one weares a knife with a blade longer than 12 cm he breaks the law here. In order to get my sabre I needed a permit and I'm not allowed to carry it with me. Either I keep it at home or leave it at my training place.
An outlaw would get a knife but will seldom use it (at least here). Moreover, he would not wear that blade visibly and he will avoid being in the areas where the police/guards are. Wearing a weapon simply makes you suspicious here and that's the whole point of not allowing regular citizens to carry weapons of any kind. If you walk on the street with a baseball bat in your hands it will take a few minutes for you to be stopped and questioned by a policeman or a public guardian. And you better have good reasons for carrying that thing. "I carry it for my potection" will certainly not work. Off course, there are areas where law is off limits but going there means either you're a law offender / want to become one or you're crazy.
One can carry a gun here, but in order to be allowed to he needs to be checked and rechecked by the authorities. So, your 2 Amm should be enhanced by control mechanisms.
The balance is broken, like it or not. If I, a citizen of a foreign country, come to the USA, I am not allowed to wield a gun. You, the people out there, are. So I'm afraid that if I say something wrong, since I'm a foriegner, I could end up injured just because the citizen mistook my intentions.
Do people get that quick to anger where you live that they threaten your life over anything that angers them? I don't own a gun, and neither do any of my friends. Yet we've all angered someone before, but we weren't threatened. Unless your looking into getting drugs and pissing off a dealer, you really have nothing to worry about. The only person that was related to me in any shape or form was a old class mate that I didn't even talk to once. He was shot because he told a potential buyer of another deal not to buy it because he had better stuff. So right their he created a confrontation in whats a pretty dark proffession if you want to call it that.
Maybe people out here have a worse temper than you in the USA, but that's not the point of what I've said. I merely stated that there's no balance when some carry weapons and some don't. You could say that an outlaw will always try to shift the balance in his favour by getting himself armed while you are not. It's true but getting yourself armed is just pushing the spiral upwards. You get a Python(like Genghis) he gets an Eagle. You get an Eagle, he gets a Mac10. Does the second ammendement allow you to buy a b-52? He would get an F-22 and a B2. And so on and so on.... Arms race isn't a concept that limits itselfs to countryes.
You may say that gunownership is an internal issue of the USA but I think even you must realize that USA are not just USA. They are the leading power of the whole world and if the citizens of her don't care about what other people say then they are just calling for it.
We understand our laws exist in our borders, and we abide to other countries' laws, which say that we can't have guns. I think most Americans are fine with that.
The 2nd Amm, like it or not, it's not just a problem of the USA, it's a problem for the whole world. So is death penalty, abortion, etc.
No, the 2nd is a problem, only for those who want to get rid of it, which is not the majority of Americans.
The fact that now there we are at page 13 seems to confirm my opinion. Not much of the world cared about the Civil War when it happened. Everyone is now with the eyes stuck on your country and to what you people do out there (and out)
Now, seeing the guy who you put in charge and what he's done, how can you expect us other believe that you are more responsible when you stroll on the streets carrying guns.
We had guns longer then we had Bush in power. Besides, not all States won him the electorates, and not all citizens voted for him. There maybe somethings that most Americans agree on, and thats usually what we feel is American to us. But for the majority of things, we all very greatly.
Bush is your President! It doesn't really matter if you say you didn't voted for him. He is in charge and he did/does what he knows best (or worse, if you like).  If you're so responsible when carrying weapons how come you cannot elect a suitable President for your nation? Nobody expects you to be unanimous but to get at least a responsible individual into the White House. If you want to stick to the 2 Amm the show the whole world that you earn that right. Insulate yourselves in an ivory tower, if you don't like strangers to crticize you. Or accept to be what you are: a wonderful nation that has some things to really think about.
*Oh, I must admit that I'm a little (maybe more than a littleEmbarrassed) paranoid.
I could tell, and trust me, droves of American citizens won't be raiding your town with guns blasting.Tongue[/QUOTE] That would be hard, unless they infiltrate when you establish your bases here. Just don't shoot the girls!
 
*Where's GenghisAngryOuchDead?


Edited by Cezar - 06-Jun-2007 at 14:58
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 16:05
Originally posted by Maharbbal

Give me a break with the American-ness. Many American are pro-control or even anti-gun (mayor Bloomberg for instance).When it comes to the argument only-bad-guys-gets-nailed, the figures I've posted about under-14 and inter-family murder rates indicates the contrary.Cezar's quite right when he says that the US are a role model for the world, be it through Hollywood or academic reviews. In a sense, with great power comes great responsibility.Finally, I find it irritating that you (by you I mean the AE pro-gun lobbyWink) constantly refuse to answer the points I'm maing:- Guns are a inter-state matter (90% of guns involved in an homicide in the state of NY had been bought of the state; NYT of today),- Lets never forget that a gun kills and that necessarily increasing their number increases the risks,- Whatever the pragmatic reason given (self defense or anti-tyranny better option are available) NYT of yesterday: 80% of the death of US soldiers (poor devils) last May were caused by IEDs (50-70% in other months).


This is the never ending thread but I have posted where I stand and will not budge.

Maharbbal- I am curios about what brings you to America and what part of the USA are you going to??
Are you a student or do you have a job here?
You are free to this opinion and in most of the U.S. Americans will accept your views, although, in some states such as Montana, Idaho, Wyoming,Alaska or even eastern Washington you might run into some serious arguments. Don't worry no one will shoot you though-lol

I was also curious if you are Turkish- as many people know I spent some time in Istanbul, Turkey and I noticed a lot of gun shops with hand guns while I was there but it is hard to get a permit I was told.

Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 20:27
Disapprove Oh, the arrogance. Apple pie was around in these parts for centuries before the US even existed! Whatever gave you the idea you are the only one who makes apple pie? Ridiculous. Tongue
YOU MEAN US AMERICANS DIDN"T INVENT EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!Big%20smile
And is it un-American to require kids to play with wood bates and not dangerous aluminum ones? I wasn't talking about the 2nd Amdt I was talking about the over-use of guns.
And I was discussing our culture, guns are apart of it. We enjoy the sports, and we feel that we can own one for defense, even if we never use it for such.
Policy-making is not about yourself but what is the best option for the community.
Policy should also be based on what the people want, another thing most Americans believe in(though don't seem to get...).
The US could be a stupid role model Wink But more seriously, the US are very often used as a model for policy-makers and opinion-makers (see Nicolas Sarkozy in France). Besides soft power is also very important (gang culture ain't limited to the American continent, there is a massive hiphop culture in the poorest neighbourhoods from Paris to Lagos. It doesn't mean that the US gun culture is responsible for the level of violence in these places but it doesn't help.
Then you should take issue up with globalization.
It is not about legal theory but about daily practice.
Americans are blamed for policing the world, now people want us citizens to watch what we do in our daily lives to appease others. It really sucks being a world power...
More strict? What about the amendment preventing police to exchange interstate information about gun sale to criminal?
Beside there are 4million guns sold every year in the country, if we consider (which must be wrong) that they are simply replacing old one banning the sale (hypothetically) would decrease the number of guns by 50% in 25 years. Not mentioning that as the population grows the rate of prevalence of guns would clearly plummet
I'm up for having stricter gun laws that will prevent more crimnals getting them, but alot of crimnals get Illegal guns too.
And the majority of Americans don't want a gun ban.
Nothing to say about the other forms of defense?
Maybe I'm to tired to see the obvious, but what do you mean?
 
If I buy a knife and wear it I'm similar to an outlaw. If I buy a knife and I'm leaving it at home that's another story.
Are Outdoor Sportsmen to be outlaws too?
Moreover, he would not wear that blade visibly and he will avoid being in the areas where the police/guards are.
Gun owners don't visibly show their hand guns in public.
Wearing a weapon simply makes you suspicious here and that's the whole point of not allowing regular citizens to carry weapons of any kind.
Same here, people will call in if they see someone holding a knife or gun. Gun owners here don't show over their weapons in public, most are sportsman.
I merely stated that there's no balance when some carry weapons and some don't.
I think you don't have to worry about that situation, I never have.
You could say that an outlaw will always try to shift the balance in his favour by getting himself armed while you are not.
Someone who robs you will always find the upper hand over their victim. They go for the weakest any any weapon will make that happen.
You get a Python(like Genghis) he gets an Eagle. You get an Eagle, he gets a Mac10.
Going by that, we should have had this problem for over a hundred years from now. It's happened in the Wild West, but they didn't call it the "WILD" West for nothing.
Does the second ammendement allow you to buy a b-52?
If you could afford it. But our laws don't allow us to have explosives, so whats the use of that?
Arms race isn't a concept that limits itselfs to countryes.
Well, can't say it's happened here. Not even gangs really as hand guns serve them best. And they mostly have illegal hand guns.
The fact that now there we are at page 13 seems to confirm my opinion. Not much of the world cared about the Civil War when it happened. Everyone is now with the eyes stuck on your country and to what you people do out there (and out)
Why? People complain that Americans don't care much for what goes on in the world and doesn't follow their events. Maybe they should just ignore our daily lives too.
Bush is your President! It doesn't really matter if you say you didn't voted for him. He is in charge and he did/does what he knows best (or worse, if you like).  If you're so responsible when carrying weapons how come you cannot elect a suitable President for your nation?
Seeing as I didn't vote for him, and never really will vote Republican unless there is a outstanding candidate, why ask me? I can't answer it because I haven't learned to read other's minds yet, but I'll get back to you on it once I learn!Tongue
Nobody expects you to be unanimous but to get at least a responsible individual into the White House.
It was close both time, atleast in most of New England, we were the Blue States, along with California.
Insulate yourselves in an ivory tower, if you don't like strangers to crticize you.
I could careless, but for the life of me, I can't firgure out why what we do in our daily lives concerns you when you don't even have to set foot on our land if it concerns you so much. Most of us Americans are satisfied and haven't run into problems.
That would be hard, unless they infiltrate when you establish your bases here. Just don't shoot the girls!
If we have bases built in your country, the only thing your going to have to worry about is all the American soldiers partying, you should hear the stories about Soldiers in Germany that I've heard.
 
 




 
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 22:13
I was wondering, to what extend the wild west was wild? I mean, we all know Billy the Kid etc but how often this type of dangerous folks would show up?

eagle, I moved to NYC and may move again to LA or Frisco, I move to be with my partner who was not allowed to remain in the EU, and I am a Masters student, opening my company in September (inch'allah).

Policy should also be based on what the people want, another thing most Americans believe in(though don't seem to get...).
Well, here is one of the paradoxes of democracy. Famously a majority of US citizen opposed Roosevelt's support to the UK and Russia before Pearl Harbor. The other problem is that representative democracy is trusting one guy for a given period of time. While he is in office, as long as he doesn't break the law he can do what ever he wants. If he (or she) considers that one option is the best for its constituency, but (according to polls, which does not necessarily means anything) a majority the constituents oppose it, he has a decision to take. He may get it very wrong, but that is the point to elect someone intelligent. So if he gets it wright or not too wrong, experience proves that after a few years the majority may well shift (none of the dreadful calamities foreseen by the opponent happened, hence why not supporting the law?). A bit as if tomorrow guns were banned in the US and after 10 years no tyran and no crime wave occurred,  a majority of the population may oppose a return to the 2Amdt. It is the ain't broken don't fix it principle, the all question being is it broken?

Americans are blamed for policing the world, now people want us citizens to watch what we do in our daily lives to appease others. It really sucks being a world power...
Well it does come with a few compensations doesn't it? The US leads and thus can take credit for the good things but has also to pay for the mistakes. Responsibility But frankly, I'm not 100% by the US domination but I'd fight for the US domination any time, as the alternatives are China and Russia.

And the majority of Americans don't want a gun ban.
Things change.
I am a free donkey!
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 18:20
I was wondering, to what extend the wild west was wild? I mean, we all know Billy the Kid etc but how often this type of dangerous folks would show up?
While there were the big names, people often solved their problems on their own. Alot of dirty and nasty things happened out there.
The US leads and thus can take credit for the good things but has also to pay for the mistakes.
Most Americans don't even know what good things we did. Most just believe we saved France's ass in the World Wars and thats it.
Things change.
Thats the beauty of our constitution, it's ment to be flexible with the times. But with the current times, I don't see that change happening anywhere near the near future.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote DesertHistorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2007 at 14:39
Not in the United States it isn't. Perhaps elsewhere in the world it is, but using lethal force to defend ones property in the Untied States is legal.
 
 
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by Genghis

I certainly would kill anybody who burglar broke into my house and do society a big favor.


     Careful, its illegal to use lethal force to protect property. Make sure he's armed before you kill the guy.
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