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The Dracula fiction and Transylvania

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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Dracula fiction and Transylvania
    Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 14:02


The extent of Dracula image in today society make people believe that it has some real basis.

In fact, there is nothing true. Everything was invented by Bram Stoker but is true that he inspired from several real elements which he put together.


I think he firstly was incited by the romanticism of name Transylvania or perhaps he have read about the medieval German cronicle which depicted a 15th century Wallachian voivod, Vlad the 3rd, in a fantasmagoricaly way.

Bram Stoker picked superficialy some data about Transylvania and produced a completely commercialy book which created a genre in literature and even more, in cinematography. He have seen on a map of Transylvania (at the end of 19th century Transylvania was still part of Austroungarian empire) the toponym Bargau (Borgo on Hungarian maps) which for him sounded close to Burgum and he placed there the castle of his imaginary vampire count. But Bargau toponym is not derivating from Burgum.

Bargau is very quiet mountain pass between Transylvania and Moldavia, in Bistrita Nasaud county. In Ceausescu's time, here was built a hotel with a "medieval" architecture, to atract foreigner tourists as customers.


Vlad the 3rd preserved in the popular memory as Vlad tepes (Vlad the Impaler) was one of most important voivods og Wallachia. He was very devoted to his country, very brave and wise.

But also, he has drastical methods to keep the country in clean estate. He was killing the beggers, the boyars and the Turkish invaders by impaling them. For this, he gained the reputation of a bloodish figure during his time.

But the mythified image was created by German and Hungarian detractors, with him Vlad have had conflicts:


"German Pamphlets

At the time of Vlad Draculas death Matthias Corvinus of Hungary was seeking to bolster his own reputation in the Holy Roman Empire and may have intended the early pamphlets as justification of his less than vigorous support of his vassal. It must also be remembered that German merchants were often the victims of Vlad Draculas cruelty. The pamphlets thus painted Vlad Dracula as an inhuman monster who terrorized the land and butchered innocents with sadistic glee."


http://www.donlinke.com/drakula/vlad.htm#Evidence



The article on Wikipedia is quite complete:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_Dracula




So, Bram Stoker exploited the name of Transylvania and the figure of Vlad Tepes to make money with his book.

But which have been the effects for Transylvania and Romania?

Untill the first decades of 20th century, when the story of Dracula was not largely popular, Transylvania was a land like others, maybe just finer in its natural and cultural heritage.

But the propagation of Dracula image and implicitly of a misterious Transylvania lead to a phenomenon: this land was no more seen as a normal territory but as a land of vampires, dark and mistery. Foreigners can't think at Transylvania without thinking at Dracula and this creates a collective psychosis.

The people in Romania, especialy the Transylvanians, are very affected by this, even they don't realise this. Dracula's story make Transylvania has an aura of superiority which is a deformed percepetion of reality which extent not just to the conscience about this territory and its culture: Transylvanians are tended to see everything distorted due to this spirit created by Bram Stoker's book.


Edited by Menumorut - 23-Mar-2007 at 13:59

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  Quote Dan Carkner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 15:17
Heh heh.. I still think Transylvania is mysterious, the whole Carpathians are.  Any mountain range that isolates an area/culture will tend to give an air of mystery or timelessness.  And if a famous work of fiction is set there to capitalize on it, it will only add to the effect.

Although then again I agree it must be annoying that most people in the world don't know anything else about the area..
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 15:26
Heh heh.. I still think Transylvania is mysterious, the whole Carpathians are. Any mountain range that isolates an area/culture will tend to give an air of mystery or timelessness.


I think the mysterious feeling is due to Dracula legend. Without it, everything would have been more luminous.

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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 12:29
Indeed, as a Romanian living abroad, I find that often the only things that North-Americans know about Romania are Transylvania and Nadia Comaneci! My father was from Transylvania (actually from Banat, but no one here knows where that is), and when I tell people about that, they instantly start making comments about vampires. There's even documentaries about Transylvania on TV, concentrating almost exclusively on "Dracula" and Vlad Tepes, and in fact they do little to help the problem, because they show almost exclusively the German side of the story of Vlad Tepes. The historical Vlad is presented as little better than Dracula...
 
By the way, Menumorut, when you said "goldsmith", the proper word is "aura", just like in Romanian (I'm assuming you looked up "aurar" by mistake). Dictionaries play tricks sometimes...


Edited by Decebal - 23-Mar-2007 at 12:31
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 14:02
I know where Banat is.WinkI am studying about Romanian ethnogenesis,and i am currently in the 5th century AD.I have some more centuries to study, up to creation of Romanian Nation-State.I think i will manage it.Smile
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 14:14
I think that the worst effect of this whole Dracula story was that it propagated an absolutely false image of the people living in Romania, as being primitive, isolated and backward. This image may be "good"  for tourism, but it's definitely bad for other businesses...I mean, who would buy for instance high end electronic devices made in "the land of Dracula"...


Edited by xaser - 26-Mar-2007 at 14:15
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  Quote Ovidius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 15:08
Interesting stuff Manumorut.

There are a few things I have to disagree with.

You are right that the Dracula myth is fiction and has not connection to Romania, except in a modern culturally imported fashion. Bram Stoker's imagination was extremely strong and his research on Transylvania was extremely small.

Bram Stoker did not base Dracula on Vlad Tepes, this is actually a creation based on amateur Historians imagination, not the imagination of Stoker. Now the word Dracula I believe means devil in Romanian and this is what Stoker was using, Dracula was supposed to be the image of Evil not a historical character. He was the Devil, or a form of the devil. In Bram Stokers research for the book, he never once read anything about Vlad the Impaler and the only reference too Vlad the Impaler did not use the World Vlad Dracul or something similar.


So, Bram Stoker exploited the name of Transylvania and the figure of Vlad Tepes to make money with his book.


This is more or less a half truth. You are right that Transylvania as a place is extremely important for the book and its early success. It wasn't actually the first place that he was going to set the place. I believe the first place was in Slovakia (I'm not sure which region, I've not got my research here). His inspiration for Transylvania possibly came from two areas, it is known he took out a travel book from a certain period, that had pictures of Transylvanian castles and architecture. This book really highlights the gothic side of the region, which is really a central theme of the book anyway.

The other issue is Transylvania's position in Europe - it is on the fringe. It is a place that is close but not too close. A dark corner of home, something like this. It is the perfect setting of a book of this type and worked well in the imagination of Britons of the day, to some extent it still does.

The other myth is Bran Castle, suitably named and rather well placed as a tourist destination for all those 'dracula' tourists. It is the perfect castle for Dracula. Unfortunately there is no evidence that Bram Stoker actually had any knowledge of the existence of this Castle, it was not in any of the books Bram Stoker used to research the books. Rebecca Haynes, a Historians researching the topic, cites plenty of other possible sites, but believes its probably an amalgamation and, more importantly, a creation.

You are right about Transylvania as a dark region of Europe, it still does possess a certain amount of wonder. Its like the haunted house down your street. Obviously this is far from reality, having travelled frequently to the area, all I can say is that it does have some 'scary' parts - the forests and the old architecture, but its just normal.

Indeed, as a Romanian living abroad, I find that often the only things that North-Americans know about Romania are Transylvania and Nadia Comaneci! My father was from Transylvania (actually from Banat, but no one here knows where that is), and when I tell people about that, they instantly start making comments about vampires. There's even documentaries about Transylvania on TV, concentrating almost exclusively on "Dracula" and Vlad Tepes, and in fact they do little to help the problem, because they show almost exclusively the German side of the story of Vlad Tepes. The historical Vlad is presented as little better than Dracula...


Are you second generation Romanian or First? I've been studying Romanians living in London, you really are an interesting bunch. Its amazing some of the people you get to talk too - including descedents of Voivoids.

I was asking them about similar things - their opinions about what British people thought of them as Romanians and about ROmania. I must admit Nadia Comenci, Ceasescu (because of the visit) and execution, orphanages and stealing, seem to be the sorts of things that are connected to Romania. The Vampire and Communist mentality, these are the funniest ones though. I talked to one person who said she had been asked about these things and she was confused, having lived in the UK since before Communism and before the re-emergence of Dracula!


As for Vlad Tepes. I don't know the Historical truth about the character. He is popularised by Romanian Historians and Amateur Historians alike, if it wasn't for stories like Dracula, I think he would be completely ignored outside of Romania and academic circles. What i find weird is how Mihai Bravu/Vitezul is often overshadowed by Vlad Tepes. I find Lucian Boia's arguments about why very interesting.

I think that the worst effect of this whole Dracula story was that it propagated an absolutely false image of the people living in Romania, as being primitive, isolated and backward. This image may be "good"  for tourism, but it's definitely bad for other businesses...I mean, who would buy for instance high end electronic devices made in "the land of Dracula"...


Although this is the modern problem of Bram Stokers book. It certainly wasn't the main aim of his book when he wrote it. yes, he used a region that based on contemporary attitudes already was fairly mysterious, but he didn't have any image creation motives. I think his main motives were to make a good book. He was also writing a book that was part of a trend of 'invasion' stories, based on themes of degeneracy and evil. So I don't think he was specifically writing against the Romanians, he was just writing popular fiction in the late 19th century.




Edited by Ovidius - 29-Mar-2007 at 15:12
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 15:31
ow the word Dracula I believe means devil in Romanian and this is what Stoker was using, Dracula was supposed to be the image of Evil not a historical character.


In Romanian, devil is sayed drac (from Latin draco, snake). Draculea was a surname of Vlad Tepes, not related to its evil character but to the fact he was decorated with the order of Dragon.

But Stoker gived to the name Dracula an evil conotation.



In Bram Stokers research for the book, he never once read anything about Vlad the Impaler and the only reference too Vlad the Impaler did not use the World Vlad Dracul or something similar.


Bram Stoker has made some documentation.

We do not know exactly why Bram Stoker chose this fifteenth century Romanian prince as a model for his fictional character. Some scholars have proposed that Stoker had a friendly relationship with a Hungarian professor from the University of Budapest, Arminius Vambery (Hermann Vamberger) , and it is likely that this man gave Stoker some information about Vlad Tepes Dracula. Moreover, the fact that Dr. Abraham Van Helsing mentions his "friend Arminius" in the 1897 novel as the source of his knowledge on Vlad seems to support this hypothesis. It should also be kept in mind that the only real link between the historical Dracula (1431-1476) and the modern literary myth of the vampire is in fact the 1897 novel; Stoker made use of folkloric sources, historic references and some of his own life experiences to create his composite creature. On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that Vlad Dracula's political detractors - mainly German Saxons - made use of the other meaning of the Romanian word "Dracul" - "Devil" - in order to blacken the prince's reputation.


http://members.aol.com/johnfranc/drac05.htm


It is a place that is close but not too close.


I think the reason for chosing Transylvania is its name.


The other myth is Bran Castle, suitably named and rather well placed as a tourist destination for all those 'dracula' tourists. It is the perfect castle for Dracula. Unfortunately there is no evidence that Bram Stoker actually had any knowledge of the existence of this Castle, it was not in any of the books Bram Stoker used to research the books.


Bran castle has not connection with Vlad Tepes and Stoker didn't placed the domain of Dracula in the area of Bran (South East Transylvania, Brasov county) but in North-East Transylvania (Bargau pass, Bistrita-Nasaud county).

the connection between Dracula and Bran castle is recent (1990) and is purely commercial.


Finaly, I regret that I have expressed such disapreciative about Bram Stoker. His story actualy made millions of people dream and live more intensely, not just in the sense of watching horror movies but in the sense that this story is romantical, having a love element.



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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 15:49
Originally posted by Ovidius

 

Indeed, as a Romanian living abroad, I find that often the only things that North-Americans know about Romania are Transylvania and Nadia Comaneci! My father was from Transylvania (actually from Banat, but no one here knows where that is), and when I tell people about that, they instantly start making comments about vampires. There's even documentaries about Transylvania on TV, concentrating almost exclusively on "Dracula" and Vlad Tepes, and in fact they do little to help the problem, because they show almost exclusively the German side of the story of Vlad Tepes. The historical Vlad is presented as little better than Dracula...


Are you second generation Romanian or First? I've been studying Romanians living in London, you really are an interesting bunch. Its amazing some of the people you get to talk too - including descedents of Voivoids.

I'm a first generation Romanian, though having come here in my early teens, I'm somewhat different than most of the other first generation immigrants, in that I integrated well enough not to stand out as an immigrant, but still didn't forget my language and where I come from.
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  Quote Ovidius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 16:36
Bram Stoker has made some documentation.

We do not know exactly why Bram Stoker chose this fifteenth century Romanian prince as a model for his fictional character. Some scholars have proposed that Stoker had a friendly relationship with a Hungarian professor from the University of Budapest, Arminius Vambery (Hermann Vamberger) , and it is likely that this man gave Stoker some information about Vlad Tepes Dracula. Moreover, the fact that Dr. Abraham Van Helsing mentions his "friend Arminius" in the 1897 novel as the source of his knowledge on Vlad seems to support this hypothesis. It should also be kept in mind that the only real link between the historical Dracula (1431-1476) and the modern literary myth of the vampire is in fact the 1897 novel; Stoker made use of folkloric sources, historic references and some of his own life experiences to create his composite creature. On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that Vlad Dracula's political detractors - mainly German Saxons - made use of the other meaning of the Romanian word "Dracul" - "Devil" - in order to blacken the prince's reputation.


I have seen many things like this. They are all based on the same source - a couple of books written about Dracula, claiming to know the 'real dracula'.

and it is likely that this man gave Stoker some information about Vlad Tepes Dracula.


Its not just unlikely, its more or less impossible. Stokers diary and letters survive and there is no mention of Vlad Tepes in any of them. There is absolutely NO evidence that Vlad Tepes was the basis for the character of Dracula. The Name probably did come from his friendship with the Hungarian Professor, I was aware of this link.

Stoker had decided to make a Vampire style of Book before he had chosen
Transylvania as a location. So again, all this alludes to him not having any such historical character in mind.

think the reason for chosing Transylvania is its name.


Like i said before, he made a clear choice of using Transylvania. He changed his mind after visting a specific library (based on his notes etc), so I'm more willing to believe he was influenced about material on Transylvania. He surely knew the name when he originally thought of the idea.

Bran castle has not connection with Vlad Tepes and Stoker didn't placed the domain of Dracula in the area of Bran (South East Transylvania, Brasov county) but in North-East Transylvania (Bargau pass, Bistrita-Nasaud county).

the connection between Dracula and Bran castle is recent (1990) and is purely commercial.


hehehe. I was aware that it was commercial, eventhough certain writers have connected it to Stokers work.

My geography isn't good enough to have noticed the differences in location!
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 17:08
In the end ,Dracula will survive up to the end of human species' time,if we suppose there are archives of any form.That's a plus for Romania.Wink
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Apr-2007 at 10:40
Although I have little doubt that for most people the connection Transylvania= land of Dracula is the only thing they know about the area, I do not think you should consider this all bad. Lots of countries have stigmatisations and all that ( Paris is known as the city of love, I just found it smelly and loud... And Amsterdam is known as the city of drugs, like there is nothing better than that to be found in Amsterdam). But sometimes these have a good effect: Tourism. However much you might dislike tourists, they do have one thing: Money. And a country like Romania can defenatley use some of that... A country can go rich on tourism, if it encourages it properly, and Romania, I have heard of those who have been there, is stunningly beautiful in many places. If used correctly, the Dracula figure can be the boost behind pushing up Romania as a tourist country, and once people have been there and return home to spread the tale, Romania's nature and (also I have heard) overwhelmingly impressive culture will soon take over as selling points. You should consider it as a little gift from Stoker...Smile
 
About Stoker: a minor point, but one that stood out for me... Van Helsing is supposed to be a Dutchman from Leyden. But the only two or three words he sais in his native language in the book are in German... And he talks with a German accent instead of a Dutch one... So much for doing any research by mr. Stoker... I mean, how hard can it be to look up a dictionary what is proper Dutch for 'My God' and 'No'....

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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2007 at 17:16
I think that the worst effect of this whole Dracula story was that it propagated an absolutely false image of the people living in Romania, as being primitive, isolated and backward. This image may be "good"  for tourism, but it's definitely bad for other businesses...I mean, who would buy for instance high end electronic devices made in "the land of Dracula"...
 
 
Sorry xaser, but thats pure rubbish, did you actually read the book? Do you know what era it is set? Bram Stoker wasn't thinking about tourism when he wrote the book, no one would care where the goods came from as long as they were cheap and good, etc etc
 
I loved the book, and the way it's written through a series of memos and diary entries, made the ending a bit of a damp squib though, because we already knew that they had survived. Good topic though..
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2007 at 04:47
Originally posted by Dolphin

I think that the worst effect of this whole Dracula story was that it propagated an absolutely false image of the people living in Romania, as being primitive, isolated and backward. This image may be "good"  for tourism, but it's definitely bad for other businesses...I mean, who would buy for instance high end electronic devices made in "the land of Dracula"...
 
 
Sorry xaser, but thats pure rubbish, did you actually read the book? Do you know what era it is set? Bram Stoker wasn't thinking about tourism when he wrote the book, no one would care where the goods came from as long as they were cheap and good, etc etc
 
I loved the book, and the way it's written through a series of memos and diary entries, made the ending a bit of a damp squib though, because we already knew that they had survived. Good topic though..
 
Sorry Dolphin, but you are not right, Xaser is. Whatever Bram Stoker intentions may have been, the fact that people in the West see Romania (Transylvania) as some kind of horrorland is not quite right.
Stoker's Dracula might be used, and actually is, as a tourists lure.
Yet, if you should go to Dracula's Castle in Bistrita Nasaud (just been there this week, I'm in Baia Mare now) you will notice that except Dracula fanatsyes there are not also historical facts shown to the public.
I've even read posts in this forum where Vlad the Impaler was called Dracula. This shows that even people who try to read about history are misinformed.
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2007 at 11:07
Yet, if you should go to Dracula's Castle in Bistrita Nasaud (just been there this week, I'm in Baia Mare now) you will notice that except Dracula fanatsyes there are not also historical facts shown to the public.


You speak about the hotel in Piatra Fntnele, Brgau mountain pass, built in the '80-s in the athmosphere of medieval castles and called "Hotel Dracula":




Edited by Menumorut - 15-Jun-2007 at 11:10

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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 07:16
Yes Menumorut, that's the so called Dracula Castle.
I'm in Satu Mare now, I'll go to Oradea next.
Maybe I should post some pictures from my cell phone to show the world that usually there are not vampires roaming the country.
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 07:22
No one would care about electronic goods being made in the 'land of Dracula' as long as they were cheap and quality. Plus, the dracula fiction has brought nothing but money to these areas with tourism centred around the stories and fantasy.
 
The story is good, and it did a lot of good for the area. And Stoker was actually using an already present belief in the occult present in this area with the romanov gipsies and already present folklore, he didnt just pick the place out of the sky.
 
 
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 05:11
Without the story of Dracula Transylvania would have a more dynamic tourism industry because it would have been a normal region and its natural and cultural heritage would have became known. But, as I sayed, the most important it was that this artificial identity and self-consciousness of Transylvanian people would not have existed.


I studied some books about Transylvania before 1900 (and more interesting, some books abot Transylvania writen by Transylvanians before 1900) and it was a much different spirit in this land.


Speaking about Stoker's creation, it is not inspired from any authentic local traditions as you say. By happening, searching for Romanian legends for the topic Need some obscure book reccomendations I found the source of Stoker's inspiration: an 1881 book of an Englishman called Roumanian Fairy Tales and Legends. There, there is a legend about Poienari castle which appears clearly as Stoker's 'inspiration':


CONSTANTINOPLE had fallen into the hands of the Turks, and disorder reigned in the Roumanian Principalities, mainly occasioned by the pretenders to the thrones.
...
In Wallachia, Vlad the 5th, son of Vlad the Devil, cut his way to the throne, sabre in hand, and maintained it by the greatest terrorism and tyranny.
...
On the banks of the Argis, not far from Stoieneste, may still be seen the ruins of what is called in the country, the cursed ruins of the Fortress of Poinarii.



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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 07:02
I read that book long time ago, but I remember one detail.
 
The best part was when Dracula told Harker the story of his 'ancestors' fighting the Turks, in his castle.
 
Of course he is talking about himself. He says something like, 'My ancestors attacked the Turks crossing the Danube every night. Due to this the Turks have the saying "water sleeps and the enemy is sleepless".'
 
That is indeed a perfect translation of the Turkish proverb: 'su uyur dusman uyumaz'. Knowing that internet did not exist at the time, I belive Stoker's research was better that you credit him for. It is nice touch that he connects the saying to Dracula, who, being a vampire, attacks during the night. 
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