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When Britain and France nearly married...

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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When Britain and France nearly married...
    Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 09:12

WHAT IF THIS MARRIAGE HAD TAKEN PLACE?

How would this marriage shape the course of European history?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6261885.stm

Formerly secret documents unearthed from the National Archives have showed Britain and France considered a "union" in the 1950s.

On 10 September 1956 French Prime Minister Guy Mollet arrived in London for talks with his British counterpart, Anthony Eden.

These were troubled times for Mollet's France. Egypt's President Gamel Abdel Nasser had nationalised the Suez Canal and, as if that was not enough, he was also busy funding separatists in French Algeria, fuelling a bloody mutiny that was costing the country's colonial masters dear.

Monsieur Mollet was ready to fight back and he was determined to get Britain's help to do it.

Formerly secret documents held in Britain's National Archives in London, which have lain virtually unnoticed since being released two decades ago, reveal the extraordinary proposal Mollet was about to make.



The following is an extract from a British government cabinet paper of the day. It reads:

"When the French Prime Minister, Monsieur Mollet was recently in London he raised with the prime minister the possibility of a union between the United Kingdom and France."

Mollet was desperate to hit back at Nasser. He was also an Anglophile who admired Britain both for its help in two world wars and its blossoming welfare state.

There was another reason, too, that the French prime minister proposed this radical plan.

Tension was growing at this time along the border between Israel and Jordan. France was an ally of Israel and Britain of Jordan. If events got out of control there, French and British soldiers could soon be fighting each other.

With the Suez issue on the boil Mollet could not let such a disaster happen.

Secret document

So, when Eden turned down his request for a union between France and Britain the French prime minister came up with another proposal.


This time, while Eden was on a visit to Paris, he requested that France be allowed to join the British Commonwealth.

A secret document from 28 September 1956 records the surprisingly enthusiastic way the British premier responded to the proposal when he discussed it with his Cabinet Secretary, Sir Norman Brook.

It says: "Sir Norman Brook asked to see me this morning and told me he had come up from the country consequent on a telephone conversation from the prime minister who is in Wiltshire.

"The PM told him on the telephone that he thought in the light of his talks with the French:

  • "That we should give immediate consideration to France joining the Commonwealth
  • "That Monsieur Mollet had not thought there need be difficulty over France accepting the headship of her Majesty
  • "That the French would welcome a common citizenship arrangement on the Irish basis"

Seeing these words for the first time, Henri Soutou, professor of contemporary history at Paris's Sorbonne University almost fell off his chair.

Stammering repeatedly he said: "Really I am stuttering because this idea is so preposterous. The idea of joining the Commonwealth and accepting the headship of Her Majesty would not have gone down well. If this had been suggested more recently Mollet might have found himself in court."

Textbooks

Nationalist MP Jacques Myard was similarly stunned on being shown the papers, saying: "I tell you the truth, when I read that I am quite astonished. I had a good opinion of Mr Mollet before. I think I am going to revise that opinion.

"I am just amazed at reading this because since the days I was learning history as a student I have never heard of this. It is not in the textbooks."

It seems that the French prime minister decided to quietly forget about his strange proposals.

No record of them seems to exist in the French archives and it is clear that he told few other ministers of the day about them.

This might well be because after Britain decided to pull out of Suez, the battle against President Nasser was lost and all talk of union died too.

Instead, when the EEC was born the following year, France teamed up with Germany while Britain watched on. The rest, it seems, is history.

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Cywr View Drop Down
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 06:42
We could have had good food and motorways Cry
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Denis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 20:31
And you good have had mad taxes and race related riots :)
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  Quote Scorpian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 18:48
Originally posted by Cywr

We could have had good food and motorways Cry
 
 
   lolLOL i don't count eating frogs legs and snails as good food though given the choice I'd have Chinese food anyday.
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 05:09
Let's look on the bright side - you could have had the best of everything! Big%20smile
Personally, I like it the way it is - with Britain and France as they are - rather than joined in holy matrimony.
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  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 02:11
I don't think the citizens of both countries would have been happy about it. I mean...there are Anglophiles in France and Francophiles in Britain, but not everybody in each country loves everybody in the other. It might have worked out for a few years, and then I think that one country or the other would seperate from the alliance and tensions would increase between both.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 19:39
Originally posted by Denis

And you good have had mad taxes and race related riots :)


Britian has had them for ages.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 19:42
i don't count eating frogs legs and snails as good food though given the choice I'd have Chinese food anyday.


The comment reveals not only ignorance of French food, but also of Chinese. Put it this way, there is so much more to French food, for example, they do amazing suasages with baked beans, and when it comes to eating wierd animals at the food olympics, the Chinese take Gold, Silver and Bronze.


Edited by Cywr - 26-Jan-2007 at 19:42
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 06:45
Originally posted by Scorpian

Originally posted by Cywr

We could have had good food and motorways Cry
 
 
   lolLOL i don't count eating frogs legs and snails as good food though given the choice I'd have Chinese food anyday.
 
What makes you think the Chinese don't eat frogs' legs and snails?
 
And how many of them have you eaten?
 
(PS some of the best snails I've ever eaten were in a Filipino restaurant in Paris: not Chinese I know but it shows they're not particularly French. On the other hand I've often eaten frogs' legs in Chinese reataurants.
 
However, while you can put me down as a snail-lover, I'm kind of neutral about frogs' legs, which usually don't seem to be worth the trouble. )
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 21:12
A commonwealth with France in it? But that would ruin the commonwealths reputation as a anti franco-american congolmerate. However... it means France acknowelding the English crown, so... I'm all for it Thumbs%20Up. Now all we need is some documents showing that the USA secretly wants to abandon independence.

(btw, me and the French don't agree on the meaning of the word food)
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 23:03
Originally posted by gcle2003

 
I've often eaten frogs' legs in Chinese reataurants.
 
 
Only the legs?
 
Strange Chinese restaurant.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 10:15
Originally posted by Paul

Originally posted by gcle2003

 
I've often eaten frogs' legs in Chinese reataurants.
 
 
Only the legs?
Actually yes. I've never really thought about it but I've never eaten any part of a frog but the legs. Anywhere.
 
Strange Chinese restaurant.
 
I'll believe anything of Chinese restaurants.
 
But for me they have one great virtue. They never serve cheese[1] or anything containing cheese, and since cheese makes me ill that's fine with me. Sometimes in Italian and Mexican restaurants they sneak it into things.
 
Come to think about it, the French[2] are very good in this respect because though they eat a lot of cheese (not as much as Americans) they do tend to keep it to itself and rarely cook with it. As long as the cheese is sitting on a cheeseboard in lumps I can avoid it.
 
[1] I'm not counting anything made from soya as cheese. I can eat that ok.
[2] A desperate attempt to bring this back somewhere near the topic.
 
 
 
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 10:38
Theres a thing, there are 500 varieties of cheese in the UK, but yet cheese shops are something of a rarity, you just don't see that many. Maybe the French would have helped there.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Scorpian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 11:41
lmaoLOL
       I'll stick to chicken maryland from now on
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 00:44

France and Britain merging into one nation... it would be great in terms of economy, military and such.... but I am not sure if it would be socially stable. Just look at Quebec in Canada, for instance.

     
   
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 16:27
So it has been understood that the biggest effect of Franco-British marriage would be visible in the kitchenConfused
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 13:33
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

So it has been understood that the biggest effect of Franco-British marriage would be visible in the kitchenConfused
 
Oh snapped.LOL
     
   
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