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think
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Topic: Question on tatars Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 07:22 |
When did the Tatars become "Europeanized" because they dont essentially look typically mongoloid these days ?
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Aleksandr01
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Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 18:19 |
Well, not all tatars came from Mongolia. In fact, most Tatars come from
the seminomadic Bulgar states of Eastern Europe. These Bulgar tribes
originated on the Caspian Sea sometime around 200 A.D., and migrated into the steppes just north of the Black Sea. The Bulgars
joined the Attila and the Huns as they passed through their territory.
After the Huns were defeated, the Bulgar tribes dispersed throughout
Eastern Europe. When the Mongols invaded in the 13th century, the
mounted Bulgar warriors offered little resistance, and when defeated,
they took the name of their conquerors, the Kipchak Khanate.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 18:56 |
they took the name of their conquerors, the Kipchak Khanate. |
The Qipchak Turks are neither Bulgar nor Mongol, but Turkic.
Although to be fair there is hardly any difference, especially on the eastern Ukraine Steppe.
The Qipchaks were there before the Mongol invasion.
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Karakhan
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Posted: 17-Jan-2007 at 23:11 |
Originally posted by think
When did the Tatars become "Europeanized" because they dont essentially look typically mongoloid these days ?
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Tatars are not one group, although in the past it was much broader (Bashkorts, Nogays, Teleuts, for example were counted as tatars). However most tend to be Kazan Tatars and a good chunk seem to have stronger "European" features. However I've seen no shortage of those who could pass as Kazakh or Kalmyk.
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tommy
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Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 15:45 |
is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks?
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leung
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DayI
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Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 17:06 |
Originally posted by tommy
is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks? |
Yes, hundred thousands of crimean tatars "moved" or actually forced to move by stalin to Turkey.
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shinai
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Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 18:46 |
An intresting point is that the people of Republic of Azerbaijan used to be called by Russians as Persian Tatar.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 08:06 |
Russians called all Turkic people's Tatars.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Anton
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Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 06:31 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
Russians called all Turkic people's Tatars. |
Wrong. For example Russians never call Yakuts, Altai people,Bashkirs, Chuvash as such. But sometimes word Tatar is used as common noun for or Mongoloid people or even just bad people :) (f.e. "Not invited guest is worse than Tatar")
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 07:38 |
Originally posted by tommy
is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks? |
If you mean by Turks the anatolians yes there is. If you mean by Turk as in Turkic then the Tatars are just a sub-branche of it. Turkic->Kipchak->Tatar
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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shinai
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Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 12:36 |
Between Iranian(persians or Turks) tatar has a negative meaning.
It represents hords of barbarians. I remember I had and an azerbaijani feriend, whith light skin and mongolian eyes, somebody in Turkey had asked him if he was a Tatar, and my feriend had tought the turkish guy was insulting him and had answered that" tatar is your dad". the Turkish guys had said" yes my dad is a tatar , how did you figure it out?"
A word with many diffrent meanings.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 14:28 |
Originally posted by shinai
Between Iranian(persians or Turks) tatar has a negative meaning.
It represents hords of barbarians. I remember I had and an azerbaijani feriend, whith light skin and mongolian eyes, somebody in Turkey had asked him if he was a Tatar, and my feriend had tought the turkish guy was insulting him and had answered that" tatar is your dad". the Turkish guys had said" yes my dad is a tatar , how did you figure it out?"
A word with many diffrent meanings.
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hehe It is true that the anatolians(during teh Beyliks period) described Tatars as fears, Barbaric, Ruthless warriors
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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shinai
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Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 02:01 |
I MYSELF WERE THINKING TATARS ARE UGLY PEOPLE, UNTIL I SAW A TATAR GIRL AND.. NOW I AM MARRIED.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 06:05 |
Originally posted by shinai
I MYSELF WERE THINKING TATARS ARE UGLY PEOPLE, UNTIL I SAW A TATAR GIRL AND.. NOW I AM MARRIED. |
with a Tatar girl or..? if not this would be weird statement
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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malizai_
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Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 11:39 |
Originally posted by shinai
I MYSELF WERE THINKING TATARS ARE UGLY PEOPLE, UNTIL I SAW A TATAR GIRL AND.. NOW I AM MARRIED. |
or
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Naimani
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Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 23:13 |
Originally posted by think
When did the Tatars become "Europeanized" because they dont essentially look typically mongoloid these days ?
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I don't think the date is clear. We still have Tatars in Mongolia today who look exactly like the rest.
Edited by Naimani - 09-Jul-2007 at 23:14
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erkut
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Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 07:28 |
Originally posted by DayI
Originally posted by tommy
is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks? |
Yes, hundred thousands of crimean tatars "moved" or actually forced to move by stalin to Turkey. |
No Stalin forced to move Crimean Tatars to Ozbekistan.
Today there are too many Crimean Tatars in Centeral Anatolia(Especially in Eskisehir) but they moved there at the age of Ottoman Empire.
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calvo
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Posted: 03-Aug-2007 at 13:29 |
Does anyone have any pictures of all each of the different sub-ethnicities of Tatars?
It'd be interesting to compare.
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