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Topic ClosedMistaken Definition of Ancient India

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mistaken Definition of Ancient India
    Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 17:17
Here is another article from www.pakhub.info

Please let me know what you think. Does it all make sense?



Mistaken Definition of Ancient India

We have all seen the term Ancient India before. On first thought you would think it applies to the Ancient History of India. Well, you are wrong. This term applies to the Ancient History of South Asia.

For decades, Indian historians have written the history books according to their own liking. And because of Pakistanis being ashamed of their non-Islamic past, their jobs had been made so much easier. To understand what has happened in the region, you have to be open minded. Everything written here is backed up with facts, logic and common sense. The logic applied to this argument makes sense.

Before India became an English colony sometime in 1800's or perhaps earlier, there was no such thing as India that we see today. The subcontinent was very much divided into many parts ruled by various dynasties. After independence in 1947, many of the states in the subcontinent were united into two single countries.
The Republic of India and Pakistan.
The Republic of India was not supposed to claim the name 'India'. This was a political agreement broken in 1947 which has lead to a lot of confusion in modern times. India, just like Pakistan was born in 1947. Prior to this, the region which is now India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, was known as British India. When the region was partitioned, Republic of India claimed the title of 'parent state' of British India, as they received the larger land mass for their country. Along with this title they also claimed the History of the region which was British India in ancient times.

This region was only ever united when Britain invaded. Prior to that, the region was scattered with dynasties. Logically, it doesn't make sense that India can claim the history of people and land which never belonged to them. The old argument of 'Pakistan not existing prior to 1947, therefore there is no such thing as Ancient Pakistan' is flawed. The same logic can be applied to India. There was no such thing as a country, India prior to 1947, and prior to the 1800s; the South Asian subcontinent was never united in anyway. So the current definition of Ancient India is flawed. Ancient Indian history is the history of Republic of India in Ancient times. This doesn't include any region outside of their own borders.

Therefore, grouping the history of the entire South Asian subcontinent, which has never been united prior to the 1800s and passing it on to a country which came into existence in 1947, doesn't make sense. Indian Historians have ignored these arguments and pretended that India has existed for 1000s of years.

Let's talk about Indus Valley for example. The region in question is now located in Pakistan. The people of the region have always been living there. However the history of the region is claimed by India, who is in absolutely no way related to the Pakistani people, neither have they ever had claim over the land which is now Pakistan. Indus Valley settlements are located all over Southern Asia. These include, Iran, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, northwest India, and of course Pakistan. However, the Main IVC cities, aswell as the majority are in Pakistan. The main ones being, Harappa and Mohenjodaro. The Indus Valley history should be called Ancient Pakistani. Any history which took place in what is now Pakistani should be known as Ancient Pakistani history. This includes the Kushun empire aswell.

The Pakistani identity is being stolen because Historians hide the fact that South Asia has never been united prior to 1800s.

It is incorrect to even label IVC as Ancient South Asian history. South Asia is home to 1.6 billion people, which is way too broad to describe the people of Indus valley, which is now Pakistan. Sure this is no harm in mentioning the settlements outside of Pakistan (India, Iran, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Kashmir), however one has to remember that Pakistan is the home of it.



Edited by Omar al Hashim - 14-Dec-2006 at 16:21

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 18:33
Yes pakistanis have been robbed and looted of our rightful heritage but what is sad is that we have said thank you to the robbers due to our own shame. We ridicule our own indigenous ancient history and thus create an "all you can loot buffet" for the ravenous appetites of bharatis.

Almost all of the Indus river and all of the province of Sindh lies in Pakistan yet Bharat walked away with the name "India" as an optional alias that they use each time they claim our history right up to this day. Angry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 19:51
By increasing awareness, among everyone, this can be changed, and I fully intend to do so.


If you wish to help me out, then let me know
www.pakhub.info


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 14-Dec-2006 at 16:21

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 02:56
I agree with so many parts of that article. I must disagree with the parts on the IVC though. I always assumed their religion to be proto-vedic (correct me if i'm wrong) and the sites of this one civilisation was not limited to the Indus, but also to the Gangetic plain. Also there were many coastal cities in Gujarat.

I'll post a picture up from John Kaey's a history of India in a few minutes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 04:22

I do not what and how Jabnab. Anujkumar is agreeing "with so many parts of that article"?

How Pakistanis call "India" and "Indians"?

How he consider the following?
 
1. The Republic of India was not supposed to claim the name 'India'. This was a political agreement broken in 1947 which has lead to a lot of confusion in modern times.
 
2................grouping the history of the entire South Asian subcontinent, which has never been united prior to the 1800s and passing it on to a country which came into existence in 1947, doesn't make sense. Indian Historians have ignored these arguments and pretended that India has existed for 1000s of years.
 
3. Indus Valley settlements are located all over Southern Asia. These include, Iran, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, northwest India, and of course Pakistan. However, the Main IVC cities, aswell as the majority are in Pakistan. The main ones being, Harappa and Mohenjodaro. The Indus Valley history should be called Ancient Pakistani. (you have give an exception and I have shown the recent finding at Tamilnadu in another posting)
 
4. It is incorrect to even label IVC as Ancient South Asian history.
 
Anyway, the issue is one and the same.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 10:57
I too seem to recall that almost half of the IVC "settlements" were on the Indian side, also going down the Gujrat coast and covering that "rann of katch" place that was fought over bitterly during the 70s. But on the other hand I don't think any of the Indian settlements were as gigantic as the Mohenjodaro and Harappa metropolises.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 11:08

IVC is just one example.

Point is people should be made aware of this flawed trend, of india claiming all the "ancient indian" (ancient south-asian) history. Even denying pakistan it's share of history. Key lies in pakistan itself, ones people become aware of this fact, they will stride for it, i think.
no comment
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 12:25
Personally, I dont think their would have been any problem with "Ancient India" if Republic of India was called something else.
The term Ancient India currently has 2 meanings. Such clashes should not be allowed since Indian historians are using this clash to cut out other countries from the South Asian ancient History.

If a region outside RoI is being referred to, they claim they are talking about Ancient India, as in South Asia.
If a region within RoI is being referred to, they claim they are talking about Ancient India, as in Ancient Republic of India.

Both terms are used as they see fit, to promote the term India in every case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 14:13
I have probed one time and another that the ancient greeks and romans put the name to the entire sucontinent,
India+Pakistn+Bangladesh+Ceylon+Nepal+Bhutan, the land of Indus and Ganges, present Assam, south of the Hymalayas,the Deccan, the islands around. And not others across "South Asia".

If you don't want listen, go by your way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 15:26
Yes the ancient greeks might have decided to call the entire subcontinent India but that is really no concern of modern pakistanis[but I am sure it lights up the faces of many bharatis]. Most of the early greek maps of the asian regions east of modern pakistan probably had "here be monsters" or "here is the edge of the earth". Greek history is not very famous for its precision geography.

Whats relevent as far as naming conventions go is that ancient pakistanis called themselves Sindhus before being dubbed "Indus" or "Hindus" or "Indusers" by anyone else. Also relevent is that most of the Indus river and its plains are in modern pakistan. Bharatis can argue that they preserve the ancient pakistani culture and civilization to this day[partly through religion] and hence lay claim to all of "indian" history including pre-partition pakistani history but the hole in this argument is clearly visible.

An Italian-American frat-boy can also argue he preserves some ancient greek customs better than a modern greek, does this give him copyright over greek history? An astrologer in malaysia can learn the names and characteristics of the greek and roman gods and tell people's fortunes but does this make him the prime "inheritor of ancient greek civilization"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 21:02
Bharat has its own history, we have ours.  They are shared things as well, but they are others.
Its the same, Pakistan and Afgahnistan share Ahmed Shah Abdali (he was born in Multan) but in case of bactria we can say that yes a small part was in pakistan, but it was mostly an Afghan thing.


Edited by Sparten - 13-Dec-2006 at 21:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 22:51
This thread is practically identical to the Pakistans stolen history thread. We really don't need two threads on the same topic, so please feel free to continue this discussion in that thread (http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16468)

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