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ORIGINS/EVOLUTION OF LANGUAGE

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Jamukha View Drop Down
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  Quote Jamukha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ORIGINS/EVOLUTION OF LANGUAGE
    Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 23:17
The question that I would like to bring to the forum is in regards to the origins of language. My research had led me to believe that the origins of language are unknown since language is something that is learned and not innate, according to modern psychology.

Therefore, I think it would be interesting to inquire as to what an evolutionary or darwinist answer would be to this question.

Is it a possibility that language could in fact have evolved or does evolution not provide us with an adequate answer to this question?

From my understanding, the evolutionary explanation does not do justice to the topic since language is required for humans to think and since we know language is learned and not innate how can humans be able to start a fire without the instrument of language since starting a fire requires thinking and thinking is an impossibility for humans without language.

To clarify the above, we know that humans beings have made fires to survive from the dawn of man, however how can humans make a fire without thinking, since to make a fire requires thought and the use of ideas.  However, these thoughts and ideas cannot be compiled and organized in the mind without the median of a language. Since it is an impossibility for humans to think without using some kind of language.
From this I deduce that language is something that could not have evolved since to do any task that required the slightest bit of community or organization required thinking to complete tasks and as stated above, thinking necessitates language. Therefore, humans cannot have existed without thinking since without it we would be like the animal kingdom or even extinct since to make spears and things of the life require thinking. This leads me to believe that language is not something that evolved but rather existed from the dawn of man since without it we cannot think.

A sideline point to this that I would also like to mention is something I read in a book that I thought was very interesting which stated that language molds our thoughts; therefore you cannot think of something if there is not a word that represents that thought. For example, one cannot think of using the washroom if the washroom does not exist as a word since it is non existent to the mind until a word or something representing it is organized in the mind. The point the author was making is that we through language mold our way of thought such as words such as 'axis of evil' which is used by Bush are designed to frame our way of thinking with accordance of a certain objective through the median of language. Actually, I have not read the book but think George Orwells 1984 discusses this issue.

Anyway I would like to see what others have to add to this topic. So the more the responses I receive the more fruitful the engagement will be.


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JanusRook View Drop Down
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 15:16
Is it a possibility that language could in fact have evolved or does evolution not provide us with an adequate answer to this question?
 
Some studies have shown that there are certain portions in our brain, Broca's organ for instance that have to deal solely with language. We would not have this organ if the capacity for language did not evolve. Now some scientists believe that the language organ was a mutation in the brain that spread to it's descendants over a period of time. This allowed for the creation of a language once a sizable portion of the population had the mutation. Take for example the evolutionary benefit of "Get Down!" over "Aaaaah!"
 
 
From my understanding, the evolutionary explanation does not do justice to the topic since language is required for humans to think and since we know language is learned and not innate how can humans be able to start a fire without the instrument of language since starting a fire requires thinking and thinking is an impossibility for humans without language.
 
You do not need language to have the ability to think, animals think all the time yet they have no langauge, at least no true language. Basically you can attach thoughts to body gestures, grunts, growls and hisses, but you are severely limited in what you can express. Pack animals for instance know calls for food, enemy, friend and such but they have no language. Such would be early man, who would be able to use fire without language.
 
For example, one cannot think of using the washroom if the washroom does not exist as a word since it is non existent to the mind until a word or something representing it is organized in the mind.
 
I don't think this is true, just remember something you saw for the first time and didn't know the word for it. Like a piece of food you saw at a French Resturaunt, now if you've never seen Duck l'orange before you wouldn't know what it was, you would think of it as "that-chicken-like-meat-with-orange-colored-sauce". Therefore in your own mind you have made up essentially a word for it, albeit it a long one.
 
Likewise primitive man knew what things were in the world, he just couldn't tell others about his thoughts, they probably communicated based on emotions and gestures, which could allow the use of fire. The real question is why would apes use fire instead of running from it like every other animal.
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Goban View Drop Down
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  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 15:31
I agree there is no correlation between language and the ability to think. There are many examples in animals that would disprove this.
 
Also that language is constantly evolving and always will. And who knows, maybe if we were to travel back in time we could hear the various grunts and clicks of the ancient H. habilis- where they may actually be saying "Hey, check this guy out. He can't understand a flipping word we are saying..." Tongue
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The Philosopher View Drop Down
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 22:59
Well, there is also the possibility of ESP, or some such, were as, we would not need a language, and we could express our thoughts thru merely our thoughts and pictures...ect.. although some of you may laugh or point at me for expressing this thought, i believe ESP is indeed real, and is only an untapped area of the mind, afterall we only use 10 percent of our brains.. thus, there could be things we could do which we cannot fathom with only the puny 10 percent that we have.. and look at what human kind can do already with it!!
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Etherman View Drop Down
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  Quote Etherman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 12:04
When you walk do you think to yourself "Okay, I'm going to lift up my right foot, shift my balance forward, plant my right foot on the ground, lift my left foot up, shift my weight again, oops I'm falling to my left so I'll slightly extend my right arm, good now I'm balaced again, now I'll plant my left foot on the ground..." or do you just walk?
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 08:07
That our perception of the world is molded by out language is called the Sapir-Whorf conjecture and it's been around for 80 years or so. It's still controversial, though I believe the mainstream opinion would be that language has some effect on what we perceive but it is by no means the sole determining factor.
There were - as ever - earlier versions of the thought among philosophers, both in the West and the East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir_Whorf
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