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Tiera
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Joined: 17-Mar-2005
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Topic: Indo-European and Uralic families. Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 04:09 |
Kalevipoeg. Where did you take your theory from? Would you care to
enter a source? By the way, would you also state that Norwegians came
from India as they speak related languages?
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Kalevipoeg
Chieftain
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Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 04:22 |
But Estonians came from Asia or the south (by one of the two big rivers in Ukraine, Dnepr or the other one). And weren't they not Asian looking if they had lived there for thousands of years, it is biological and due to the climate.
Where did the Finns and Estonians come from then... hatched out of an egg in their current heartlands with their current looks???
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Tiera
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Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 12:58 |
Uh-oh. This might get a bit complicated now.
"Finns" and "Estonians" DIDN'T COME from any specific place as such. A
"Finn" and an "Estonian" is a national identity that has quite recently
(like all national identities) crystallised after a cultural evolution
which has probably been going on for thousands of years.
There NEVER was a group of humans who called themselves "Finns" or
"Estonians" and travelled from somewhere as a group in their modern
locations. Similarly, there NEVER was a group of people who called
themselves "Norwegians" or "Englishmen" and travelled to today's Norway
or the British Isles.
Archeological finds suggest that today's Finland (and northern
Scandinavia) for example have been inhabited by a more or less
CONTINUOUS culture at least from the comb ceramic culture onwards (ca.
5000b.c.), most likely even from the Suomusjrvi culture (similar to
the Komsa culture of Norway) ca. 8000b.c. onwards (practically as soon
as the ice sheet receded).
Of course if you go WAY back you can say that ALL Europeans came from
Asia since Middle-East is part of Asia and that is the only route from
Africa to Europe.
I don't understand what looks have to do with anything we have dealt
here. The lack of pigment (resulting in blond hair and light eyes) is
just an adaptation to life in northern latitudes and can be found in
some Fenno-Ugric speakers as well as in some Indo-European speakers.
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Mangudai
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Location: Sweden
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Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 19:16 |
Very good post Tiera, I agree
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Cywr
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Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 04:54 |
But Estonians came from Asia or the south (by one of the two big rivers
in Ukraine, Dnepr or the other one). And weren't they not Asian looking
if they had lived there for thousands of years, it is biological and
due to the climate. |
All Europeans came from Asia, Europe was populated by people moving up through the Balkans and over the Black sea, from Asia.
There is no such thing as 'Asian looking', Asia is an entire continent that included Turks, Indians, Japanese, and then some.
Besides, you are suggesting a Western/Central Asia origin, which means they should look Turkish or something.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Guests
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 14:27 |
Originally posted by Teup
Other Germanic -> Dutch
sk --------------> sx |
So the English word scar is schaar in Dutch, and skill is schil
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Teup
Earl
Joined: 25-Jan-2005
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 17:21 |
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
Originally posted by Teup
Other Germanic -> Dutch
sk --------------> sx
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So the English word scar is schaar in Dutch, and skill is schil
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well, ok, it doesn't work for English
I'll add a collumn:
Oth.Ger. Dutch English
sk sx ('sch') S ('sh')
skjut - schiet - shoot
it's in that direction also, sk is the oldest form, that one is likely to be assimilated into sx (so you can keep on making fricative noise), and the x in several germanic languages is, in turn, likely to turn S, under influence of even lazier people, like the Englishmen . The pronounciation of Mnchen is a good example of the latter (although it's not precisely a x originally).
Well I'll wrap up here.. I was just in a phonetics mood today
Edited by Teup
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Whatever you do, don't
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 17:25 |
fonetics of Romance languages are easier. A comparable sound in various languages:
Italian: gl
French: ill (but may differ)
Occitan: lh
Catalan:ly
Spanish: ll
Portuguese: lh
works almost without an exeption
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Teup
Earl
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Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:35 |
"Dutch is the closest relative of English. The Frisian language, spoken in the Dutch province of Friesland and very closely related to Dutch, is even closer to English" ---http://www.phrasebase.com/languages/index.php?cat=60
Some sites are really, really full of crap
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Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:38 |
But Frisian is the language closest to English.
Unless you count Scots as a language
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Cywr
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Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 16:12 |
SOme do, ironicly, Lowland Scots more Germanic than modern English is,
but yet the Scots are the most vocal about their Celticness.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Teup
Earl
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Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 05:58 |
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
But Frisian is the language closest to English. Unless you count Scots as a language
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in whatever case, the statement from that site is wrong, read it closely
However, I think Swedish is way closer to Engish than Dutch is. In word order, cognate resemblance, as well as syntax. It's usually fifty-fifty: topicalisations are for instance the Dutch way, relative clauses are the English way.
Edited by Teup
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Whatever you do, don't
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Cywr
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Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 10:12 |
Friesan is the language closest to Anglo-Saxon. Modern English is
Anglo-Saxon+Anglo-Norman, making it somewhere inbetween Friesan and
French.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Kuu-ukko
Shogun
Joined: 02-Dec-2004
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Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 14:13 |
Originally posted by Cywr
Lowland Scots more Germanic than modern English is, but yet the Scots are the most vocal about their Celticness. |
As a matter of fact, they are more Germanic, but we are talking about vocabulary here. The "language" is also spoken in England, by the name of the Geordie dialect. The Lowland Scots and Geordie are actually the same dialect, so you can't basically count Lowland Scots as a language. The dialect derives from the Northumbrian dialect of Old English (=Anglo-Saxon). When the Danes created the Danelaw, the area left north of it was populated by Anglo-Saxons speaking Northumbrian, and so keeping the language intact. Thus, it is the closest "language" to Standard English.
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Posted: 09-Apr-2005 at 16:50 |
Originally posted by Cywr
Friesan is the language closest to Anglo-Saxon. Modern English is
Anglo-Saxon+Anglo-Norman, making it somewhere inbetween Friesan and
French.
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Between, perhaps, but not evenly so-- rather, much closer to Frisian. The Norman influences were primarily (though not entirely) lexical, with a bit of derivational morphology as well. Influences, however, most importantly non-syntactic ones, do not denote relation than genetic closeness.
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