Northern Turkmen vs. Turkish and Azeri.

Again you are mixing up the terms. On Oghur are different from inner nine Uyghur tribes. They were the one of the earliest migrants to Europe.

Persian and Arabic witers did mistermed Uyghurs as toqquz oghuz. Check the writings from Uyghur empire period, you will see that they called Toqquz Oghuz as the strongest Turkic group.

Oghuz and Uyghur are two groups among Tura tribes. (Wuhu for Oghuz, Huihu for Uyghur). They were not part of each other. This Oghuz are the sihun Oghuzs. Uyghurs comprised of nine inner tribes and nine outer tribes. Nine outer tribes also called as nine Oghuz tribes.

You should know, culture changes when the life style of the people changes.

But remember Mehmut Qeshqeri didn't say Yaghma is the correct form of Turkic language. He said "Haqaniye Turk Tili", Qaraxanid Uyghur language. After converting to Islam, Turkic people started to differenciate themselves from other non-moslim Turkic people with the name of "Turk" (Originally it was a political term).

I didn't see what I need from your link. Just give the lists of the different tribes. It won't be difficult. Salur is one of the 24 Oghuz tribes. Now the burdon is on your side to disprove it, just by listing the 24 tribal   names of the sihun Oghuzs, and nine tribal names of the nothern Turkmans. (without comment). We can discuss it after.
     

1. Who was the most strongest during Uyghur empire? I think there shouldn't be any argument about that.

2. Tura tribes are numorous, refer to Suishu. Wuhu and Huihu are the two among them. Chinese refered to Uyghurs as Jiuxing Huihu (nine clan Uyghurs) during Uyghur empire period.

3. Mehmud qeshqeri did say "Xaqaniye Turk Tili" is the most correct form, he meants the rulers language. Yaghma was closest, but not this one. Yaghma was part of Outer Uyghur tribes, so this closeness surely makes sense.

4. Turk was not a name of a tribe. The core family of Gokturk empire was Ashina tribe.

5. I have no doubt about the nine tribes of the Turkmans. I just asked you to list them so that we know them, and can compare with the Sihun oghuz tribes. Can you do me this favour in your next post? Just the names of these nine Turkman tribes.

sigh, my long post was lost due to temporary server problem. Anyway let me make it brief again:

1. At last you have given us the list of the Turkman tribes. Thanks mate. I remembered you said that Yomut and Kokleng are not real turkmans. Does that mean that the real Turkman tribes are seven?

2. I think you have noticed in another tread the list of 24 Oghuz tribes. Salur is also one of them. Do these two Salurs are different from each other?

3. These Turkman tribal names are quite new, and don't resemble any of the Outer nine Uyghur tribes (or nine Oghuz), (My books are at home in China) can you list these nine Oghuz tribal names? Thanks.

4. Are you connecting the Turkman tribes to the Outer nine Uyghur tribes just because of the same number of tribes or can you enlighten us with the history of these Turkman tribes?

Well, i'm really happy to see that finally we can discuss in this constructive way.

1. I'm pleased you have admitted at last that the southern Turkmans are also part of Turkmans.

2. There might be several different versions of 24 oghuzs, but what I know from common beliefs that Salur is also part of 24 oghuz confederation. Uchoqlar---Daghhan---Salur. If you don't agree, then why not give us the 24 names from Persian sources (Tarixi Jahan Kushay etc)?

3. We surely know their Turkic names, Chinese names are just pronounciational translation and it's very easy to get the respective Turkic ones. Just tell me the Chinese ones, I'll tell you the turkic names of these outer nine Uyghur (nine Oghuz) tribes.

4. I'm sorry, it is not "nine Oghuz", it is "outer nine Uyghur" tribes, who have became part of Uyghur confederacy. Yaghlaqar firstly made the royal tribe, then inner nine Uyghur tribes made confederation, then outer nine Uyghur tribes made unification. Later Basmil and Qarluq became part of this confederacy, however, Basmil was usurped, Qarluq disintegrated later. The term Uyghur was no longer a tribal name in Tura, it became common name for all the eastern kok-turks.

Oghuzxan legend dates back to much earlier time period. Moreover, according to the legend, Oghuzxan had six sons, three made buzoq, three made uchoq, and became the ansectors of the 24 Oghuz tribes.

5. After the collaps of Uyghur empire, the tribes started movement to the west and there were mixing between other Turkic tribes there. So it's not that simple to say that Turkman tribes are the direct descendants of the outer nine Uyghur tribes. The present tribal names of the Turkman people shows they were quite later formation or else they would have kept the original tribal names.

6. You should know there are many different theories on the turkic tribal composition. You said you talked about the history of the Turkman tribes, sorry I counldn't see any. Why shouldn't you start one by one? That would be useful for us to learn about your people's history. Can we start with Teke?



   

We have been discussing for almost two week in this thread and now you are unhappy that what we are discussing is offtopic. Indeed, this thread is about linguistics, however when I started to join the discussions, your other threads initiated at the same time, also turned into linguistical discusstions (Uyghur and turkman language comparison, Persian sound difference, Nesirdin Hoja origin etc), I was confused, and stated clearly in this thread my confusion, and summerised your reasons in those several treads to make a clear path for our further discussion. Actually I thought we had made a very constructive exchange, if you are not willing, then I'm out, and continue your discussions in terms of linguistics.