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Vietnamese military
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Hwarang View Drop Down
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Hwarang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vietnamese military
    Posted: 04-Dec-2004 at 17:43
before the vietnamese obtained firearms, what was their army liek? What kinds of weapons and armor did they use? what units did they have
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2004 at 17:55
I would assume similar to Chinese and Korean military except with elephants.
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2004 at 19:39
and war canoes, they werent to big on body armor either.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Hwarang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2004 at 22:36

does anyone have any websites or links?
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Wrong. Vietnamese military never used elephants; this was only used by the Thais, Khmers, Champas as well as the Burmese and Indians.

Vietnamese military was similar as their former Ming overlords, used regular infantry and some calvalry.

 
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Posts: 277 		  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 04:45
Originally posted by King Chulalongkorn

Wrong. Vietnamese military never used elephants; this was only used by the Thais, Khmers, Champas as well as the Burmese and Indians.


Hmm, perhaps you should take a look at the pic:

http://130.94.23.9/wigi/thumb2.php?f=Haiba.jpg

It is a reenactment of the Trung sisters rebellion back in 43 CE.


The Vietnamese used Elephants galore in their defeat of the Ming.  Legend has it that Ming troops were terrorized at the mere sight of the rampaging elephants.


Originally posted by King Chulalongkorn


Vietnamese military was similar as their former Ming overlords, used regular infantry and some calvalry.

Actually, the Ming only ruled a divided Vietnam for only 20 years.  When Vietnam was united, the Chinese were were always very quickly dealt with.  The Ming were actually invited in by a weak Vietnamese monarch--and a foolish one at that, to help secure his throne from other ambitious nobles.

Also, it is explicitly written in Chinese records that the Ming borrowed cannon technology from the Vietnamese.  The Chinese may have invented the cannons, but the Vietnamese made significant techological improvement which the Chinese took back home with them.



Edited by TranHungDao - 01-Jun-2007 at 04:47
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Posts: 277 		  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 04:53
"The Trưng Sisters are highly revered in Vietnam, as they led the first resistance movement against the occupying Chinese after 247 years of domination. Many temples are dedicated to them, and a yearly holiday, occurring in February, to commemorate their deaths is observed by many Vietnamese. A district in Hanoi is named after them. In addition, numerous large streets in major cities are named after them. They are often depicted riding on elephants into battle."

Source:  http://www.answers.com/topic/trung-sisters
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Sander View Drop Down
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 19:35
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Actually, the Ming only ruled a divided Vietnam for only 20 years.  When Vietnam was united, the Chinese were were always very quickly dealt with.  The Ming were actually invited in by a weak Vietnamese monarch--and a foolish one at that, to help secure his throne from other ambitious nobles.
 
something similar is said in this thread where  Ming China is claimed as militairy superior over SEA in general.
 
 
That tendency is interesting. In most cases Ming and ( and post Ming) lost against SEA states.
 
Also, it is explicitly written in Chinese records that the Ming borrowed cannon technology from the Vietnamese.  The Chinese may have invented the cannons, but the Vietnamese made significant techological improvement which the Chinese took back home with them.
seems more states in SEA produced better and larger cannons than Chinese.  

Anyway, any pics of genuine Vietnamese cannons?
 


Edited by Sander - 01-Jun-2007 at 19:52
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Posts: 277 		  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 20:59
Originally posted by Sander

something similar is said in this thread where  Ming China is claimed as militairy superior over SEA in general.
 
 
That tendency is interesting. In most cases Ming and ( and post Ming) lost against SEA states.


Chinese nationalists have serious problem understanding their own history, as any nationalist would. Disapprove

Ever since independence in 938 CE, Vietnam has 9 or 10 straight victories over the Chinese, often they were overwhelmingly outnumbered.  The scale of these invasions typically made the medieval European wars look very small. 

2nd Mongol/Yuan Invasion:  200,000 Vietnamese vs 500,000 Mongol & Chinese Chinese
3rd Mongol/Yuan Invasion:  200,000 Vietnamese vs 300,000 Mongol & Chinese

Ming Invasion, 1420's:  100,000 Vietnamese vs 200,000 Chinese
Q'ing Invasion, late 1700s:  100,000 Vietnames vs 200,000 Chinese

1979 War:  100,000 Vietnamese vs 200,000 - 250,000 Chinese

Originally posted by Sander

seems more states in SEA produced better and larger cannons than Chinese.  


At the risk of sounding nationalistic, it was the Vietnamese who were the gatekeepers who kept the Chinese out of SE Asia.  Vietnam once sent an expeditionary force into Burma even, forcing Thailand to pay tribute, not unlike how Vietnam, Korea, etc., use to pay tribute to China.  Even Indonesia has paid tribute to a hegemonistic Vietnam in the past; now I'm not at all sure when and how long these various tributes lasted.  Vietnam, Champa, the Khmer, the Thai, were constantly fighting each other, no unlike how European countries did amongst themselves.

Originally posted by Sander


Anyway, any pics of genuine Vietnamese cannons?


Nope, but I got this:

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/showfile.asp?pubid=545&type=2

It is a 30 page paper on how the Chinese borrowed Vietnamese cannon technology.  It hypothesizes and says explicitly at the end that the Chams and other SE Asians did not have the same cannon technology (by the early 1400's anyway), which is why Vietnam was able to overrun Champa.

Note that it is written by a Chinese author from Singapore.


Edited by TranHungDao - 02-Jun-2007 at 05:25
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