Turkish and Greek history according Turgut Ozal

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Topic: Turkish and Greek history according Turgut Ozal
Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 07:54

A friend of mine is finished a book that brought from Constantinople. The author was the x-President of the Turkish Republic Turgut Ozal and the name of the book is ��La Turquie en Europe (Paris 1988)", written in the French language.She found a lot of oximoron historical quotes regarding the Greek and Turkish history.

At the page 242 mention

��Homer our compatriot (notre compatriote) initiated in Anatolia, in the ninth century B.C. that which one would later call 'the Greek miracle��

Mr. Ozal appropriate the first poet of Greece (and more importantly) the first European poet for Anatolia and the Turks.

We are thus faced with a paradox. Homer, who wrote in Greek, who was the first in a remarkable series of Greek poets, who is the founder and the major figure in European literature was not a Greek, but an Anatolian and, therefore, a Turk.

Here the x-Turkish President has transformed his classical scholarship into what the ancient Greeks termed "paradoxography",(defined as "interest in the marvellous and out of the he way,"), for the ethnic transformation of Homer from Greek into Anatolian, and finally into Turk, is nothing if not "marvellous". The author turned paradoxographer, informs us that Homer's brilliant accomplishment cannot be explained on the basis of the cultural baggage which his ancestors brought from

Greece

since at that time Greek culture was at a low level. Therefore it has to be explained by the rich Anatolian cultural environment.

I will glad to hear the Turkish members to deposit theirs opinion if they agree that Homer was a Turk.The book has a lot of thinks and I will bring them slowly.

Edited by akritas - 20-Aug-2006 at 07:55

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:24

Let me explain some unclear points.

In Turkey, there are two main views on Turkishness:

1) Turkism, the view that claims Turks are of CA turkic descent. The majority of turkish people believes this view.

2) Anatolianism (Mavi Anadoluculuk) claims that Turks are of ancient Anatolians descent.

Besides this who views, there is also an interesting view that is believed amongst nationalist Turkish peoples that the ancient anatolian peoples were racially Turks, called "On-Turkler". But this is of course, the most absurd view by far.

Anyway.

Turgut Ozal was an Anatolianist (the second main view in Turkey), (And he was a Kurd, as you may know). As a President, Turgut Ozal also said that The name of the country was incorrect, it should have been called "Anatolian Republic." So Turgut Ozal had some interesting opinions about history, indeed.

And I'd also like to point out that many Anatolianists consider ancient Greek people in Anatolia as Anatolian.

Leonidas

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:45

ive come across this before.

while i support the 'anadolian view' myself, i think it would be best when going back into history to label things as they are.

homer is anadolian as i think the turkish are, but that connection doesnt make him turkish. greeks can also be anadolian as are kurds, laz and every other group that are 'native' to some degree.

akritas

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:53

Hidden Face thanks for your informations.My question is what are the reasons and motive forces behind the decision to write and publish such a book, and for its contents?

When the head of a state decides(was Prime Minister at that time), in medias res, to publish such a book it is in itself a significant political act. Such a political figure is ipso facto, entangled within the emotional and political commitments of his own economic, military, political, and social policies, as Mr. Ozal makes abundantly clear in the book itself. But aside from these general considerations, i.e. that it is not a scholarly or critical history, the goals of the book are stated to be political and economic.

Thus the book was not initially intended to recover, reconstruct, and explain history, but rather it is agonistic and aims to persuade Europe to accede to Turkey's political and economic goals and desires.

Edited by akritas - 20-Aug-2006 at 09:57

Komnenos

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 10:13

It is not often that my views on the world are completely shattered, but the last few weeks shook me to the core: Homer was a Turkish woman. It will take some time until I have digested that.

What ever next?

Sappho, the famous Greek poetress, was in fact a strapping 6.4 foot Assyrian chariot driver with a beard down to his ankles?

The world is full of surprises.

Edited by Komnenos - 20-Aug-2006 at 12:51

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 11:34

akritas, welcome to the world of Turkish dichotomies. Where anyone with a voice will have something to say (and find a respective audience). Whether the state could find some historical purpose out of a book published in France is interesting. I would'nt go so far as implying a significant impact that alters Greek history. Especially, regarding Homer. I would rank Ozal's comments right up there with the pearl's of wisdom, NikebBG mentions regarding Sofia entrance exams (Historical Amusement). Ridiculous. Homer was Greek. His language Greek. Being an anatolian get's Ozal a seat at the bar, not past the doors of the v.i.p. lounge.

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 14:45

Originally posted by akritas

My question is what are the reasons and motive forces behind the decision to write and publish such a book, and for its contents?

I need to read the book to know if there is really a secondary thought behind it. However I agree that there must be some political reasons to publish such a book, indeed.

And, by the way, guys, I think the issue is about Turgut, not the Greekness of Homer.

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 15:06

Hmm, I've heard it before that according to some Turks Homer was actually a Turk, called Omar. But I thought it's more of a joke and didn't believe it could be so wide-spread in Turkey. Well, I guess there are autochtonists everywhere... Stern Smile

Akritas, what else did you want to quote from the book (as you said in the beginning)?

akritas

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 15:59

Originally posted by The Hidden Face

Originally posted by akritas

My question is what are the reasons and motive forces behind the decision to write and publish such a book, and for its contents?

I need to read the book to know if there is really a secondary thought behind it. However I agree that there must be some political reasons to publish such a book, indeed.

And, by the way, guys, I think the issue is about Turgut, not the Greekness of Homer.

It's true.The issue is the book of Ozal and the Historical events that try to present us and not only the Homer. But your post and your explaination that there are two lines regarding the Turkish history is very informative

akritas

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 16:15

Originally posted by NikeBG

Akritas, what else did you want to quote from the book (as you said in the beginning)?

From page 46

"The comparison of the Anatolian poets and philosophers with those of Greece - between 900 and 500 A.D. -shows clearly that the appearance of Homer in Anatolia was not fortuitous.

"For three centuries Asia Minor - and above all Ionia and the Aegean isles- gave to the world, following Homer, a pleiade of poets who were all the creators of a (separate) genre."

And additionally Ozal said that Anatolia provided the men who created science, philosophy, history and geography (Thales, Anaximander, Anaximenes, Pythagoras, Xenophanes, Cadmus, and Hecataeus). During this time Greece produced only Hesiod and Solon.!!!!!

Therefore according Ozal the Ionian "civilization" was superior to that of Greece. Again, Mr. Ozal has, time (and he assumes this improperly, equated Ionia with all of Anatolia (the rest of central and eastern Anatolia has no one to show for this period). and handles Ionia as though it were not Greek either in culture or inspiration.

He goes on to mention Plato and Socrates asserting that they too were under the spell of the great Ionian philosophers. The Athenian historians Thucydides and Xenophon similarly yield to the "Anatolian" superiority of Herodotus, and as for Aristotle he is discarded as being a Macedonian and therefore not Greek(even born in Greek colony, in those that consern Macedonians as not Greek tribe).

All the above are quotes from the ancient time of the Turkish History!!!!

Also if I am not wrong the Turks call the Greeks as Yunan, that mean Ionian!!!

There are a lot of paradoxies, from a writer-politician that supposed to know very well the history of the region and worked for the peace between the two nations.

Edited by akritas - 20-Aug-2006 at 16:18

bg_turk

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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 22:42

Oh come on. Turgut Ozal was an electrical engineer, not a historian, so his opinion about Ancient Greece and Homer is irrelevant and unimportant.

http://www.journalof911studies.com

akritas

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Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 06:38

...was also and politician, with many influence in the Turkey.So this book effect the Turkish policy.

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Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 05:53

Mr.Ozal is hero for the conservatives and neocons in Turky.But for the left wing (socialist and social democrats)he is the head of the corruption in the turkey.

He had started win win but without ethic or respect just with.

He did revoulation in Turkish economy but he was an electirician Engineer.

Mr.Ozal wanted to move Turkey to forward but he didnt show that how we can do it with our feelings and culture.

Yes he opened a door for us .But life is so wild and so hard wihout out respect and ethic.

His megalo idea was in this hinterland (old ottoman and turkic hinterland)

made an economical unity and make another pole in the world but assisting to USA.

All his ideas wanted to people get together and make more money.

He started to not require visa from Greece and organized Black sea economical Forum.After him this idea died.

It should be better but after him nobody feed this idea.

I agree his idea,in this hinterland from former Jugoslavija untill china we have similar culture and mentality.

That s why Ozal said homer is turk or has same culture.

I am in international marketing business and met with lots of the people from lots of country in the world.

For example i can get easily contact wiht a greek and sell stuff more than an american or brit.

Also an armenian very easy get know i m trying a monley business to him or not.

When i go to abroad for to eat i choose greek of armenian or lebanese restaurant if there isnt any turkish food.

Becuase they have similar people and similar food like i used to.

Yes Akritas,Yunan means Ionian.We do not call you greek or grek what ever.Also we call you "rum" if you are from Constantinopolis or Cyprus.

We believe romans (venezian,italians) mixed with greeks and they are Roman (rum) and also it hapend in cyprus too.

But the other greeks (Greece,Symirnia) we call yunan.

So in this land (balkans,mezopotamia,caucasia) people are same.

yes different but closer.We are (you and me) lived under the same flag 400 years.

You remember the photos of the

Γεώργιος Καραϊσκάκης - Georgios Karaiskakis

Θεόδωρος Κολοκοτρώνης

Monument of Theodoros Kolokotronis in Athens

They look like turkish or a european?They have fes and cepken.(turkish shirt)

I have question to you Akritas. yesterday Greece-Turkey basketball match

i saw an african greek basketballer.

he has greek name and greek surname

Sofoklis SCHORTSIANITIS

his mother must be greek but he is african.maybe mother american or african you know him?

Yiannis