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Dervenion Papyrus

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akritas View Drop Down
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dervenion Papyrus
    Posted: 31-May-2006 at 07:39
The Dervenion Papyrus, found in 1962 near Thessaloniki, is not only one of the oldest surviving Greek papyri but is also considered by scholars as a document of primary importance for a better understanding of the religious and philosophical developments in the 5the and 4th  cen BC.
 Proffessor Gabor Betegh aims to reconstruct and systematically analyse the different strata of the text and their interrelation by exploring the archaeological context; the interpretation of rituals in the first columns of the text; the Orphic poem commented on by the author of the papyrus; and the cosmological and theological doctrines which emerge from the Derveni authors exegesis of the poem.
Today the sceintific team that decephere the Gospel of Judas will try to do the same think in the Dervenion Papyrus with the help of the technology
 
 
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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 19:12
Is there any available translation of it?
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 02:13
Theodore now try to complete the translation. The team said that in the end of the summer will be finish the entire work.
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  Quote Neoptolemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 02:45
Oldest papyrus is decoded

Greek and foreign experts have used cutting-edge technology to decode the Greek text of the worlds oldest literary papyrus more than four decades after its discovery, it was revealed yesterday.

The Derveni Papyrus which has been in the Archaeological Museum of Thessaloniki since its charred fragments were found among the remains of a funeral pyre in 1962 is described as a philosophical treatise based on a poem in the Orphic tradition and dating to the second half of the 5th century BC.

It is particularly important to us as it is the oldest (papyrus) bearing Greek text, Apostolos Pierris, director of the Patras Institute of Philosophical Research, told Kathimerini.

Experts from the institute, Oxford University and Brigham Young University, who decoded the papyrus and aim to reassemble it, are to hold a press conference in Thessaloniki today.

The papyrus is believed to be an invaluable document for the study of ancient Greek religion, philosophy and literary criticism.

Source: http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/content.asp?aid=70297


Greek researcher Apostolos Pierris describes a new venture to decode a charred 2,400-year-old papyrus scroll bearing Greek text during a press conference in Thessaloniki yesterday. Greek, British and US experts are using cutting-edge technology including advanced photographic techniques and the electronic separation of fine layers of the papyrus to decode and reassemble the fragmented Derveni Papyrus.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_2109954_31/05/2006_70351



Edited by Neoptolemos - 01-Jun-2006 at 02:51
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  Quote Kotsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 13:05
i've seen extracts from yesterday's press conferance of the research team on tv. They say that they'll publish all of the papyrus results and their comments by next year, but it's known what the papyrus is about.

The science applied to "read" it must be very interesting and advanced. I'm quite cautious though to be honest on whether it's 100% accurate


Edited by Kotsos - 01-Jun-2006 at 13:06

nje faqe nje fare
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 14:14

I copy/pasted this response from a duplicate thread I opened (and now closed). Thanks Akritas!

Interesting find. I personally like the focus on one creator and knowledge of 'truth'. Truth answered in the afterlife on the Day of Judgement? The Quran describes that after death, we are going to be confronted with the truth, which will be 'pain' for some and 'bliss' (perception of the truth that creates us to reach Djenna/Heaven, the state of mind which will create ultimate bliss) for others. So the punishment of hell is the confrontation with the truth and that the soul is stuck in its illusion, and stops growth.
 
The paragraph above is a philosophical understanding versus the litteral 3-D version of heaven/hell.
 
The ancients possibly had inspirations before our current Bibles.
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 11:30
 
 
Associated Press

Athens,
 June 1, 2006
By Nicholas Paphitis
A  collection of charred scraps kept in a Greek museum's storerooms are all that remains of what archaeologists say is Europe's oldest surviving book - which may hold a key to understanding early monotheistic beliefs. More than four decades after the Derveni papyrus was found in a 2,400-year-old nobleman's grave in northern Greece, researchers said Thursday they are close to uncovering new text - through high-tech digital analysis - from the blackened fragments left after the manuscript was burnt on its owner's funeral pyre. Large sections of the mid-4th century B.C. book - a philosophical treatise on ancient religion - were read years ago, but never officially published.

Now, archaeologist Polyxeni Veleni believes U.S. imaging and scanning techniques used to decipher the Judas Gospel - which portrays Judas not as a sinister betrayer but as Jesus' confidant - will considerably expand and clarify that text.

"I believe some 10-20 percent of new text will be added, which however will be of crucial importance," said Veleni, director of the Thessaloniki Archaeological Museum where the manuscript is kept. "This will fill in many gaps, we will get a better understanding of the sequence and the existing text will become more complete," Veleni told The Associated Press.

The scroll, originally several metres of papyrus rolled round two wooden runners, was found half burnt in 1962. It dates to around 340 B.C., during the reign of Philip II of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great.

"It is the oldest surviving book, if you can use that word for a scroll, in western tradition," Veleni said. "This was a unique find, of exceptional importance."

Greek philosophy expert Apostolos Pierris believes the text may be a century older.

"It was probably written by somebody from the circle of the philosopher Anaxagoras, in the second half of the 5th century B.C.," he said Thursday.

Anaxagoras, who lived in ancient Athens, is thought to have been the teacher of Socrates and was accused by his contemporaries of atheism.

Last month, experts from Brigham Young University, Utah, used multi-spectral digital analysis to create enhanced pictures of the text, which will be studied by Oxford University papyrologist Dirk Obbink and Pierris, and published by the end of 2007. "We were now able to read even the most carbonized sections, as there were pieces that were completely blackened and nobody could make out whether there were letters on them," Veleni said. The scroll contains a philosophical treatise on a lost poem describing the birth of the gods and other beliefs focusing on Orpheus, a mythical musician who visited the underworld to reclaim his dead love and enjoyed a strong cult following in the ancient world.

The Orpheus cult raised the notion of a single creator god - as opposed to the multitude of deities the ancient Greeks believed in - and influenced later monotheistic faiths.

"In a way, it was a precursor of Christianity," Pierris said. "Orphism believed that man's salvation depended on his knowledge of the truth."

Veleni said the manuscript "will help show the influence of Orphism on later monotheistic religions."

The Derveni grave, some 10 Kilometers (6 miles) northwest of Thessaloniki, was part of a rich cemetery belonging to the ancient city of Lete.

"It belonged to a very rich man, a Macedonian nobleman, warrior and athlete who had a lot of very important and valuable artifacts in his grave," Veleni said. Finds included metal vases, a gold wreath and weapons.



Edited by akritas - 06-Jun-2006 at 11:35
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 11:57
I am not a professional and my question might sound stupid. What makes this papyrus so difficult to translate? Is it a problem with reading  (symbols are not seen well) or problems with actual translation into modern greek/english/whatever language?
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 12:04
Originally posted by Anton

I am not a professional and my question might sound stupid. What makes this papyrus so difficult to translate? Is it a problem with reading  (symbols are not seen well) or problems with actual translation into modern greek/english/whatever language?
The Dervenion Papyrus has already deciphered as Greek.There is a book from the Cambringe University that explain the all think.The problem that not translated the all text because the missing words and  letters.One missing word could be change the all meaning of the quote.


Edited by akritas - 29-Jun-2006 at 12:07
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 12:10

This is the first comprehensive study of the Derveni Papyrus. The papyrus, found in 1962 near Thessaloniki, is not only one of the oldest surviving Greek papyri but is also considered by scholars as a document of primary importance for a better understanding of the religious and philosophical developments in the fifth and fourth centuries BC. Gbor Betegh aims to reconstruct and systematically analyse the different strata of the text and their interrelation by exploring the archaeological context; the interpretation of rituals in the first columns of the text; the Orphic poem commented on by the author of the papyrus; and the cosmological and theological doctrines which emerge from the Derveni authors exegesis of the poem. Betegh discusses the place of the text in the context of late Presocratic philosophy and offers an important preliminary edition of the text of the papyrus with critical apparatus and English translation.


This is the first comprehensive and systematic study of the Derveni Papyrus
Provides a critical edition and translation of the text of the Papyrus
Discusses the relationship between philosophy and religion in the fifth and fourth centuries BC

 
 
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