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Anastasia- Russia " Lost Princess"

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Anastasia- Russia " Lost Princess"
    Posted: 30-Apr-2006 at 10:21
Originally posted by Paul

Pretty amazing story.

I think the Wiki article you included in the later post answers your questions, but it also makes me doubt she really was Polish. How many Polish factory workers speak Russian, French and English. A Russian princess of that era should have pretty good English, Anna could have learnt hers in the US in later life. When you spoke did she have good English/ an American accent.

Apart from a little in Russian as a (not very searching) test, and some German because the photographer was German, the whole conversation was in English, hers being educated and fluent though accented and with that uncertainty about the use of articles that is typical of Slavs in general.

I couldn't then, and have never been able to since, make up my mind for certain, but I pretty firmly believe she was at worst a member of the minor Eastern European aristocracy, and probably did have the English governess she claimed to have.

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  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2006 at 10:59
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

In the 1930s a woman calling herself Anna Anderson threw herself into the Seine in Paris. She was rescued and brought to hosptial where she showed the nurses pictures of the Romanovs in a magazines and pionted out how like Anastasia she was.

I don't know where you got that from, but it's way wrong. It was the Landwehr canal in Berlin and it was in 1920.

Moreover it was others in the hospital who recognised her resemblance to Anastasia[1], not her that first claimed it. The hospital had her listed as 'Fraulein Unbekannt' (Miss Unknown) for two years.

[1] Actually she was first thought to be Tatiana.

The wikipedia article is pretty good and objective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Anderson

Ok I was wrong about Paris and 1930s but I'm right about everything else. She showed the mag to the nurses and she remarked on her resemblance to Anastasia. I've read several books on the subject that all state the same thing .

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  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2006 at 11:01

Originally posted by Richard XIII

The missing princess was Maria and she lived in south africa.

Where did you get that from ? Studies of the bones showed Marie was there.

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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 03:15
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 02:53
Originally posted by Richard XIII

The missing princess was Maria and she lived in south africa.
This is a rumor that keeps getting repeated but there is no evidence to support it. There is however a ton of evidence to support the fact that the late Anna Anderson who appeared in Berlin was Grand Duchess Anastasia, whose body is still missing- see my thread I started. The DNA tests done on Anna Anderson would never be accepted in any court of law. I promise you that. I reccomend the book 'Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson' by Peter Kurth.
 

It is absolutely out of the question that Anna Anderson was anyone other than who she claimed to be. She was recognized by those who had been closest the the young Grand Duchess Anastasia (Lili Dehn and Alexandra Tegleva, Anastasia's nanny). No imposter would have known of such private details of the Imperial where only few were present, such as the incident in which only Alexandra, Lili Dehn, Anja, and the young Anastasia were present. The ears and the handwriting were absolutely identical. In 1957, Lili von Dehn who was one of Empress Alexandra's best friend and had been especially close to Anastasia came to meet Anna Anderson in the Black Forest where she was living. What she found was the young girl she had once known, now old and shriveled up. Her statement reads as follows:

 

'...I had a real shock when I first saw her, a poor, pale and wrinkled little face! The first impression was of a terrible sadness, but the moment I heard her voice... it was so familar to me, so real- the voice of the Grand Duchess Anastasia... No one can imitate the voice and the way of talking of a person he has never seen before... We spoke of Anja [Anna Vyrbouva], and she knew many details concerning her and her friendship with the Empress. She spoke of an occasion when the empress was very displeased, even angry with Anja. That was only known to the Empress, Anja, myself, and the little grand duchess who was present, but too young to understand the meaning and only remembered the fact. We spoke of the officers we mutually knew, and she never made a mistake... She did not like or want to speak Russian, but the few words which escaped her were absolutely correct; the family names, real Russian ones, were pronounced in exactly the right way. Her hands reminded me very much of the hands of her mother... What can I say after having known her? I certainly cannot be mistaken in her identity.'

 

This is but one example of many.

 

'Nearly fifty years ago, Anna Anderson told a story about a sketch she and her sister had put on to amuse their parents during their confinement in Tobolsk. She played a male part, she 'recalled', and and had to borrow a man's dressing-gown. At a pivotal moment in the play, a freak draught made the dressing gown billow up around their thighs, revealing that she was wearing the tsar's long-johns- against the bitter cold of the Siberian winter. The family, said Anna Anderson, had hooted with laughter. The only witnesses from the imperial household who would have been present at that scene, and who are known to have survived, were the two family tutors-both foreigners. One was the English tutor, Sydney Gibbes, and his memoirs were published for the first time in 1975. They include this account of an incident during amatuer theatricals in Tobolsk. "The cast," Gibbes wrote, "had its happiest night with an Edwardian farce by Henry Grattan, called 'Packing Up', ... Anastasia took the male part... at the end of the farce the 'Husband' had to turn his back, open his Dressing-gown as if to take it off- Anastasia used an old one of mine... but a draught got under the gown and whisked its tail up to the middle of her back, showing her sturdy legs and bottom encased Emperor Jaguer's underwear...' So far as exhaustive research can establish, only Anna Anderson had ever before told this vivid ancedote, in private and three decades before the Gibbes memoirs appeared. If Anderson was a phoney, as the seemingly damning DNA evidence now tells us, how did she know the story? That was one of the myriad puzzles that believers in Anna Anderson had to confront when the scientists delivered their verdict. Ian Lilburn, a research historian and the only observer to attend every session of the "Anastasia" appeal process in the German courts, had a calmer response than some. "I think," he said, knowing he sounded like a Luddite and Romanov flat-earther, " there is something we don't know about the DNA."

 

Olga Alexandrovna and Pierre Gilliard are the real reason people doubted the identity of Anna Anderson as Grand Duchess Anastasia. How anyone can trust them after they have been discredited by their own statements I do not know. Olga later said she had always known Anastasia was dead. If that is true why did she write Anna Anderson five loving and passionate letters which promised 'I will never abandon you'. Pierre Gilliard is a proven liar. He constantly touched up photos in his books and even said that Grand Duchess Anastasia had never learned German, despite the fact that it was he who had scheduled her lessons.

The Franziska Schanzkowska story is obviously a lie from beginning to end. As if one detective in a matter of weeks would uncover Anna Anderson's identity when the Berlin police had failed to do so for seven years. This myth should have ended when Doris Wingender touched up a photo of Anna Anderson in court, adding to it buttons and belts in order to make her appear to be Schanzkowska.

 

It is inconcievable that a fraud would have been recognized by those closest to Anastasia and known the most intimate and secret details of Imperial Family life if she were not genuine. There is absolutely no hard proof that the samples tested for DNA were indeed from Anna Anderson. The chain of custody for the samples would NEVER have been acceptable in ANY court of law.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 02:54
The Russians had a horrible agenda to prove Anastasia died with her family:
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 02:56
Originally posted by Richard XIII

Maria is the name. On National Geographic "In Search of A Princess".

an interview
http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1227254.htm

and more scientific
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/77502025 /HTMLSTART?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www.geocities.com/mushkah//AnastasiaDied.html
That first link reads like a really bad tabloid.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 19:08
Could there have been a conspiracy to prove Anna Anderson/ Anastasia was a Polish farm girl, Franziska Schanzkowska?

Yes, it is possible. There is no doubt that there is an agenda among the Russians to prove Anastasia died in 1918, the fact the body buried under the name 'Anastasia' is measures 5'7 says as much. Anastasia was not the tallest of her sisters, she was the shortest by far.

There are a number of things that make me suspicious. There's the fact that the vice-president of the hospital denied having any samples from Anna Anderson. I would think the VP should know if they keep samples from 1979. Then there's the suggestion to have the DNA compared with Karl Maucher. I know for a fact this was not the idea of those who initiated the DNA tests, the Scweitzers. I want to know WHO on earth suggested this.

From what we know of Franziska Schanzkowska, she was not anything like Anna Anderson/ Anastasia.

FS- over 5'3
AA- 5'2

FS- size '39 shoe
AA- size '36 shoe

FS- no pregnancy recorded
AA- did have a child

FS- not injured in grenade explosion
AA- Had many stab wounds and lacerations

FS- family spoke mainly German
AA- spoke very bad German

FS- family could not understand Russian
AA- Could understand Russian very well

FS- reported missing March 9, 1920
AA- found Feb. 17, 1920- her picture was sent to many hospitals in Berlin but no one recognized her

Given these differences along with the fraud used by Doris Wingender during the Hamburg trials with her add-on buttons and belts, I don't believe in the identification of AA with FS, but AN.

Like Penny Wilson said, everyone involved with the case was dead- Manahan, Botkin, Olga and Xenia- if AA were proven to be Anastasia, it would not do any good to anyone except to embaress those in high places, the descendants of those who refused to acknowledge Anastasia

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 19:12
Originally posted by Paul

Anna Anderson was a poor fake, she couldn't even speak Russian, a pretty good give-a-way.

A while back they did a DNA test on her body and proved conclusively she was not a Romanov.

The again she was a polish peasant who conned an awful lot of rich people out of their money, so you've gotta give her, her due.

The DNA tests were not actually done on her body because her body had been cremated. It was done on a little piece of tissue located in a hospital said to have come from Anna Anderson.
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