India�s Parthian Dynasty

As per the print-out available in my files, I read your another article in http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/india_parthian_colony2.php website on June 24, 2004. At that time, I did not respond, as you had heavily depended on secondary sources with much of surmises, far-fetched statements etc.

Since, you have again posted in �allempires� forum with modification, I decide to respond as follows (In fact, I have already posted �The Pallava Script: Some Riddles� touching upon certain points after reading your article in www.allempires.com):

1. First of all, it is pointed out that you have used many words and expressions with ulterior motive as is evident from the way of writing and drawn conclusions � e.g:  �the present-day Dravidian nations�, �invading group�, �Maratha-Tamil War� / �Maratha-Dravidian War�, �race and ethnicity�..conflict�, brachycephalic (round-headed), etc.
2. According to the ancient Indian records, the Persians are �Parasiga� people � the degraded Kshtriyas, i.e, Indians excommunicated, sent out and settled in north-west Indian areas (Janapadas / Satraps) and beyond. Thus, the rivalry and polemics of these groups are exhibited in their literary traditions (always claiming defeating India or part of India or India as part / Satrap of it).
3. Therefore, there is no question of �civilizing and colonizing the Southern Asia� by them (as mentioned at the end of para.2.1).
4. You have evidently quoted Minakshi and Venkayya out of context as they have only recorded the then prevalent different views.
5. It is ironical that you still believe the �race theories and hypotheses� and interpret accordingly.
6. In Para.3.3, the malicious and mischievous views expressed are unbecoming. Anybody can give such unhistorical propagandist interpretation about any religious denominations exploiting their differences.
7. The confusion of �Dravidian� in application has been evident throughout the write-up, as the linguistic or architectural feature is expressed racist angle (para.2.7, 3 and 4).
8. Ironically, he himself comes to a conclusion that the so called �Pallavas� were not �Dravidians� but �Persians� i.e, they had �Parthian origins�. In 2.7, he records as, �The long-headedness of these sculptures rule out an Outer Indo-Aryan origin for the Pallavas, while their leptorrhine noses rule out a Dravidian origin�, implying that the Pallavas were neither �Aryans� nor �Dravidians�, in spite of their dolicocephalic heads!
9. In 5.3, also he refuted the �Dravidian origin�.
10. Their �traditional genealogy� or �legendary descent� never points to Parthian origin but to Indian heroes, as per their own inscriptional evidences.
11. For the Pallava presence in the South-east Asian countries, inscriptional evidences have been given in my paper posted.
12. At one side, delving much on the �Aryan-Dravidian� race hypotheses and theories, he made Pallavas racist �Dravidians� and set against the proverbial-unhistorical racist �Aryans�, and at the other side, he disowning such exigency.
13. In his �Consequences and Conclusion�, paradoxically, he has confessed why he has written such thing � 

]     �eagerly adoption� by all schools of Dravidologists!

]     Dravidian evangelists demand Tamil Brahmins adopt Dravidian culture!

]     Rehabilitate �dolicocephalic Pallavas� in Dravidian society in spite of being �non-Dravidian�!

]     And finally to inspire �Iranists� to carry out this type of further research!

Finally, I request all while quoting from secondary sources, kindly do not quote partially or the sentences which are favourable to one�s hypothesis or theory. The recent reading of his article made me to remember G. Jouveau-Dubreuil�s �The Pallavas� (Asian Educational Services, New Delhi, 1995). I quote some of his conclusions or surmises:

@    In the middle of the 2^nd century, King Pulymayi II built the white marble Stupa, the sculptures of which, almost entirely Roman in workmanship, now adorn the Madras Museum (p.9).

@    The subjects are Buddhistic, the costumes and ornaments are Hindu, but their workmanship is European (p.10).

@    But above all, it is the representation of the human body that the European influence itself (Ibid).

@    There is no doubt that the in its origin the Pallava art was strongly influenced by the principles of the Latin art (Ibid).

@    This Indo-European art was not peculiar only to the banks of the Krishna; it was found throughout India and especially in Gandhara (Ibid).

@    The Graeco-Buddhistic art did not certainly disappear with the Andhra dynasty (Ibid).

@    To be more precise, I believe that the Indo-Roman art attained its zenith in the II century with the stupa of Amaravati;that throughout the III century, the art used on the banks of the Krishna was entirely Indo-Romanian (p.11).

@    I think that this work done in India by an Indian is strong proof of the great influence that Latin Art exercised in the early centuries on the banks of the Krishna (Ibid).

@    We can therefore conclude by saying, that at Kanchipuram as well as at Amaravati and Bezwada, the Pallava art, inspired by Roman models, attained great perfection at the time of those early Pallavas (p.12).

So, westerners try to trace the origin to �European� / �Latin�, �Roman�, �Graeo-Buddhist�, �Indo-Romanian� and so on.

Dr. Samar Abbas wants to trace it to �Parasa� / �Pahlava� / �Parthian� / Iranian origins.

How the Pallava script was available in the South-east Asian countries and the inscriptions contained them have been dated to a pre-Pallava period, how such inscriptions are available even on Maldives-Islands are not explained.

So what Indians have to think about this type of writings?

The ones which resisted Islam and the arabs, were they Zorastrians?  We have many who fled Iran and Pakistan to seek refuge in India, today they belong to the 'Parsi' community.  There is also the Ba'hai faith and the Lotus temple in New Delhi, India is here, magnificent structure I think they used the star system to construct it.

 Looks like similar trends plagued both our lands, although I believe it was the Turks who brought Islam to India by the sword because there are still old chronicles stating that they were turks.

"The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which God hath sent down to His Apostle: But God is All-knowing, All-Wise. "--- 9:97 Qu'ran

you can create a thread on this subject, but i will summarize the basics for you.

iranians resisted for more than 200 years and eventually were able to kick the arabs out. also, one of our national heroes, ferdowsi, perserved the iranian language. at the time, people were killed if they did not practice islam or speak arabic.

iranians resented this very much, and it is because of that arab occupation that lasted 222 years that today there is still tension between arabs and iranians.

so the jist of it is that iranians held out, unlike others who were arabised, we formed a successful resistance movement, and preserved our culture and language secretely.

and iranian culture has always been dominnent in the region (central, asia, middle east, south asia, and as far as italy and possibly beyond). for example, the language of arabic, grammatically is persian based.

 I never said she was representative of the aryans, go back and read what I wrote a little more carefully.  Whether or not she's had cosmetics done on her is not to my knowledge but it doesn't look like she has had anything done.   

Originally posted by TeldeInduz  .............

Whats wrong ?? ran out of testicular fortitude???

  you clown they're south indian brahmins, go back track to my earlier post in response to the creator of this topic. What do you mean by 'recent migrants'? how recent is recent to you in terms of history?

You just hijacked that guys topic!!!  LMAO

lol OMG!!!!...ok wait...what do you find so obscure about this book??  Do you even know who Alexander Gardner was?  hahahahahaha you baboon that is probably the most reliable source regarding the composition of Ranjit Singh's army you can find!!!! 

PS. dude I got one word for you....PATHETIC you really give a bad name to Pathans, hell i'm beginning to have my doubts that you are even remotely related to them!! lol  Trust me if we were having this discussion face to face you would not be so bold with your words my friend we dont just talk the talk!

PPS. Even the jealous brother of my afghan girl friend (hosaini clan) isn't this ignorant...you're sick...you need help teldeinduz or watever your name is.

Lets clarify something, Aishwariya Rai is from Karnataka, a sate which forms approx. 30-40% of that yellow shaded region on the map in the first post + she's popular, reason enough to post up her pic.

hey lighten up man they're funny pics if it makes you feel any better you can do the same...jeez who's being over sensitive me or you?? anyways sorry for hurting your feelings.

hahahaha what are you talking about???  the south indian 'aryans' are in a minority!, here look at your average dravidian compared to an avg. south indian 'aryan'...but honestly you should look at DNA study more than just pictures.

I wonder what the pakistani remnants of aryans look like......ROFL!!!