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Milosevic dead |
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YuGo 
Earl 
Joined: 20-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 294 |
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 Topic: Milosevic deadPosted: 13-Mar-2006 at 21:21 |
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I'm glad, I could find it for you! How did you like it? Do you agree with most of the things stated in the program?
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Jay.
Chieftain 
Joined: 24-Nov-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1207 |
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Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 09:44 |
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Yes, Yugo, I agree with most of the things. Mostly Germany and the US made the serious errors and misjudgments in reporting. But, you gotta wonder - why us?
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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb |
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Mila
Tsar 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
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Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 13:03 |
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When Komnenos said now the conspiracy theories
begin and it's a national hobby in the Balkans, I thought - pfft... we're not that bad. Anyhow, I was chatting with Ljdia about how anyone could possibly believe Milosevic's death was part of some conspiracy, and she turned it around on me and said: If he had gone to Moscow for treatment, and died - what would you think?  LOL We are conspiracy theorists!
I would go to my grave convinced Russia put him to sleep to ensure there wasn't a guilty verdict. |
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Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
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Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 13:07 |
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I just like how she and her daughters are so modern in the earlier photos. It really bothers me that Western media always portrays us as traditional. The only footage you ever seen on Western networks of the Srebrenica massacre is old women in veils. They never show the men in business suits, the women wearing their fur coats and jewels in the heat to keep them. The people crying into cellular phones and all that like you see on Bosnian documentaries. She had a husband and kids and nice clothes and a life BEFORE and NOW she lives in a shack in Rajlovac, not the other way around as media always makes it seem. |
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YuGo
Earl
Joined: 20-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 294 |
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Posted: 15-Mar-2006 at 19:50 |
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I wish this article reflected all of Bosnia and Herzegovina, not just Sarajevo.. but still a good read! From Sarajevo: The Milosevic anticlimaxBy Jen Alic in Sarajevo (13/03/06) There was barely a moments pause in the daily routine in Sarajevo when the news broke of Slobodan Milosevics death in The Hague detention center on Saturday. Journalists scurried about trying to make the best of what might have been one of the biggest Balkan stories in a decade, but to their dismay, there were no visible signs on the streets of Sarajevo that anything of any significance had happened. Still, they combed the streets of the Bosnian capital with their microphones and television cameras, searching for reactions. What they got was benign - an anticlimactic sign of the times. Few people seemed interested in taking time out of their day to tell the camera how they had emotionally digested the news of Milosevics death. Some said, simply, they had nothing to say about the death of the former Yugoslav president, whom most view as the man responsible for the 1992-1995 war in Bosnia that killed some 200,000 people and displaced some two millions others. Most shrugged, smiled for the camera, and said it was too bad that Milosevic had died before the conclusion of his long, drawn-out trial - before the justice of the gavel had been served. Certainly, no one was breaking out the champagne. Alma, a middle-aged businesswoman, best summed up the sentiments of a majority of Sarajevans interviewed by ISN Security Watch or by local media outlets. The news of Milosevics death, she said, had a less-than profound effect on her. If anything, she would have liked to have seen the Hague-based International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) find him guilty of war crimes and even genocide and sentence him to life in prison. The sentence, she said, was not important, rather the guilty verdict. At a crowded caf in the bullet-riddled Sarajevo suburb of Dobrinja - a neighborhood hardest hit by the war and under a separate siege by Bosnian Serb forces, cut off from the rest of the city - the news of Milosevics death produced no response. When an ISN Security Watch journalist announced to a table of five men of various backgrounds in their late 20s and early 30s that Milosevic had died in his Hague cell, one, a high school geography professor, asked: Milosevic who? Slobodan? Hmm. After that five second exchange, the conversation immediately returned to betting on football and how everyone was certain that Arsenal would beat Liverpool on Sunday. In the caf, the more significant news was a story circulating in the local media that a group of Belgian football players had been arrested for rigging games - a development the young men viewed as more important as it had kept them from winning on their bet sheets. On the streets of Sarajevo, with the exception of a few television reporters, there were no visible signs of victory or defeat. Life barely missed a beat. At least in secular and moderate Sarajevo - where Bosniaks, Bosnian Croats, and Bosnian Serbs are one and the same people in mixed marriages and friendships and can ill afford to differentiate themselves from one another - Milosevics death, or even a guilty verdict and a life sentence, is not the ultimate closure people are seeking. Nor would the arrest of Europes most-wanted war crimes suspect, Bosnian Serb wartime leader Radovan Karadzic, provide any profound sense of closure here. Sarajevans are seeking a different kind of closure: a functioning government free of nationalist figures who obstruct progress and necessitate the existence of the international community; a functioning economy where a full days work earns an individual more than 200-300 euros a month; local police who are paid to be loyal to their oaths to serve and protect rather than to cover for the petty mafia; a passport than gets them into more countries than Cuba, Turkey, and Croatia without a visa; and, of course, a winning football bet every now and then. What they want is not so much closure with the past, but a clear way forward for the future - and few here seem to see much connection between Milosevics fate and their own. Jen Alic is editor-in-chief of ISN Security Watch |
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Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
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Posted: 15-Mar-2006 at 19:59 |
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Loknar
Colonel 
Joined: 09-Jun-2005 Location: Somalia Online Status: Offline Posts: 666 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 00:12 |
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i'm surprised at this. From what I can see, and what I have observed, Bosnians seem to want him to face justice, but not necessarily death. I know though if this man unleashed hell on America, we would want justice and a hanging. |
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Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 00:17 |
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That's not the emotion, Loknar.
Bosnians want justice more than anything. If we'd gotten the guilty verdict, he could die a horrible death the next day and no one care. They'd drink a toast to whoever killed him. But not getting the guilty verdict is annoying because we're still dealing with people denying what happened here. |
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DukeC
Arch Duke 
Joined: 07-Nov-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1564 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 00:28 |
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I think some sort of official verdict on the crimes against humanity that occured in Bosnia are neccessary, like the ones in Nuremberg after WW II. If not Milosevic then Karadzic or some other Serb leader from the war. That would make it harder for some jerks to come along years later and claim these things never happened, like the holocaust deniers we have now do.
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Socrates
Baron 
Joined: 12-Nov-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 416 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 07:44 |
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What about Bosniak and Croat leaders?They don't share the responsability? I'm perfectly aware of Milosevic and what he has done, but don't u think it takes two to tango? Lord Carrington was right when he said that we Serbs were demonized during the 90s war.He also said that Milosevic was a disaster for Serbs,but to demonize the Serbs alone is wrong, since the Croats and some Muslims were just as bad. As I can see, u're not very familiar with what happened here in balcans in the modern history.Yes, the Bosniaks suffered the most during the 90's, but u can't just look upon all these events from the 90's like it all happened suddenly, without any knowledge of what happened a few decades ago.Did u know that Croats tried to separate in the early 70's? They were shouting Srbe na vrbe!-meaning that serbs should be hanged.Or did u know how many terrorist attacks there was on Yugoslavian embassies with serbs working inside them after the ww2 - all made by croatian nationalists, from abroad.The war didn't just happen because the bad serbs decided so... Btw, it wouldn't hurt u to find something about WWII on balcans...and it's heritage...CNN hasn't got all the answers, u know... Edited by Socrates |
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"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock |
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Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 09:57 |
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WWII doesn't excuse 1992-1995. That's a mentality that you really have to get rid of. That's how terrorists think.
And besides, none of the Serbian nationalists destroying Bosnia and Herzegovina blamed WWII. After a town was ethnically cleansed, it was declared a gift to the Serbian people by the military commander responsible and almost always, including by Ratko Mladic at Srebrenica, it was refered to as "revenge as the Turks". EDIT: Paddy Ashdown once said, "The war in Bosnia and Herzegovina is too conplex for most people to understand. So lets forget about Bosnia and Herzegovina, and focus only on Sarajevo. The shelling that rocked the city day and night for 43 months was also on a scale too grand for most people to comprehend, so lets forget about the shelling and focus only on the snipers. The men and women killed by snipers were too numerous and covered every possible ethnic, financial, and other background - so lets forget about the men and women and focus only on the children. In Sarajevo, Serbian soldiers looked through their telescopic lenses at a child and pulled the trigger more than 1,200 times - and still we did nothing." I assure you, Socrates, that of those 1,200 boys and girls under the age of 12 - very few were involved in WWII.  Edited by Mila |
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Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 416 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 10:18 |
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Kad si pre odgovorila...I was gonna edit my post, but here's a new one (it's partly a continuation of my last post): We Serbs do not denie Srebrenica.Infact, our president was present at the commemoration in 2005.What we do have is those who r trying to deminish the no. of victims. PS:What majority of us feels about Milosevic and his politics can easily be seen in the place of his burial-instead of the Hall of Great or even public cemetary, hell be buried in his own backyard under the tree.He and his family made our lifes hell from the moment of his rising to power.He mislead the people and made them pay the price.Btw, Mila mentioned to me that Milosevics ratings went higher when he started preaching nationalism.True, but only 2 years later a great deal of people saubered up-in march the 9th 1991. over 200000 people went out in the streets of Belgrade to protest...when they couldnt be stoped with beatings and teargas, tanks were sent in Belgrade.In 1993. the elections were irregular, and when the same happened in 1996./97 we protested again- many people were heavily beaten and imprisoned.And I guess you all know what happened in october the 5th 2000- one million people came out in the streets of belgrade and his reign ended-note the figure-1000000 people!!So, its not like we all just sat and aproved his actions.If you look at those who mourn him now-theyre all old people-pensioners who believed every single word that he said.Only a handful of young people can be seen on TV mourning him- and they all look more or less retarded or as escaped mental patients. Mila-Paddy Ashdown and Lord Carrington aren't excatly the same league...and what Carrington said doesn't contradict to your precious Paddy's statement. Edit:About WWII:you're right-but for most people wounds were too deep...and things were nearly forgotten, not forgiven...it took only a tiny little spark to make them remmember...And i'm just seeing things in a broader context-it's not like everything happened with no prior causes...
Edited by Socrates |
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"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock |
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DukeC
Arch Duke
Joined: 07-Nov-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1564 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 11:52 |
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I also think that Croats and Bosniaks who commited war crimes should be prosecuted. Serb victims of the war have just as much right to justice as anyone else.
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Loknar
Colonel
Joined: 09-Jun-2005 Location: Somalia Online Status: Offline Posts: 666 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 12:32 |
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I wonder, does anybody here believe that the idea of Yugoslavia was just a big WW1 **** up?
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Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 16:18 |
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It is not impossible for the South Slavic peoples - Slovenes, Croats,
Bosniaks, Serbs, and Slav Macedonians - to form a single geopolitical
unit. However, Tito's major mistake was in trying to convince the
people of Yugoslavia that we were all, in fact, one people.
This created many problems. Firstly, common knowledge and common sense at the time Tito made these claims dictated otherwise. Secondly, it fueled Croat and especially Bosniak nationalism because we were the two groups who most clung to what made us different from the rest to form our cultural and ethnic identity. Macedonians, Slovenes, and Serbs are proud of themselves for more or less the same reasons. Croat and Bosniak pride is based on being unique. Thirdly, a half-Slovene, half-Croat leader preaching that we're all equals didn't go over well in Serbia either and certainly lit the spark that allowed the far-right to grow. If Tito had acknowledged from the beginning, as he did later in life, that we were in fact as distinct as any group of five major ethnic and national groups could be - perhaps a more realistic union could have been created that couldn't simply be dismissed as a lie by nationalists. EDIT: You can see this sentiment clearly in the joke Top 10 lists. Top Ten reasons for being a Yugoslav
Edited by Mila |
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Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 416 |
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Posted: 16-Mar-2006 at 18:16 |
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Too many of us, i'm afraid...U see, our (serbian) king wanted all serbs to live in one state (not to mention it's better to rule big south slav state then serbia alone), while the croats and slovenians agreed to the idea because they had no other way out-their teritory was bound to be split among the ''big'' nations...Our pm Pasic wasn't excatly thrilled with the idea, but he had to except it under the pressure of majority and the king.So instead of forming a ''greater serbia'' as the ones who fought on the side of the allies (and made quite a contribution to the breaking of the eastern front-and lost 1/2 of our adult male population) which would include parts of bosnia and croatia, we decided to form a south slav state.As today-we're extremely narrow-sighted. Croat and Bosniak pride is based on being unique. We all have distinctive cultures (more or less)-so i'm not sure i'm following u... And as i said numerous times: croats always wanted a separate state (tito has nothing to do with it)...read my previous posts....i saw an interview of croat from germany dated from the 60's-he clearly said:we don't want to live with them (serbs)...we'll fight in ALL possible ways for independence...this was the time of series of TERRORIST attacks on yugoslav embassies with serbian stuff.It was all covered up for the sake of "unity''. Edited by Socrates |
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"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock |
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Death
Samurai 
Joined: 12-Apr-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 21:23 |
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Once your dead you should stay dead!
Lets see how we live.If your not in the region then you are well.If your there,in the former YU then you are doomed and i speak the truith. Oh man i already forgot Milosevic but i cant forget Djindjic for one day,and that hurts so much.In my opinion he would have been the president of the World if he had lived. I am indiferent now so you can shout Srbija,Srbija,Sanjak,Sanjak,Novi Sad Novi Sad in my ear all you like. Not only has Serbia lost something with the death of Djiki but,in my opinion,Croatia,Bosnia...,oh man,i think even Albania and Turkey.Maybe some of you will not agree, you have that right. Dont listen to me,i have no idea what im talking about. edit:Yeah the subject,"Ovde treba da visi,evo tu"(Canak na Terazijama) Edited by Death |
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