Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Medieval Question - Thank You

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
ARBY22 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 07-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote ARBY22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Medieval Question - Thank You
    Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 14:54

Hello all.  Thank you for welcoming me to your site.  I am a journalism major and currently taking a medieval history course.  This is not my strength.  For my group project we have to lead a discussion.  My group based the discussion off 3 major questions.  Do any of you have any input or suggestions?  And could you help me in getting on the right track in answering some of them.  Sorry to bother you all, I would just like to be prepared.  Thank you so much for your time and your expertise opinion.

1) Three major cultural traditions Germanic, Roman, and Christian eventually melded to form medieval European culture.  Discuss how these traditions were manifested in the reigns of Charlemagne, , and Theodoric.

2) Compare the reigns of , Justinian and Charlemagne.  How did each use religion to further his imperial goals?  Who was more successful and why?  Were their efforts beneficial or detrimental to the Church?

3) Examine the relationship between religious authority and political power from the Great Persecution to the crowning of Charlemagne in 800AD.  What do you see as the major turning points in this relationship?  Who held more power in 800 church or state? 

Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 15:57
That's a lot: it yields ot for one but for 3 essays. And it also gives room for many opinions.

I really don't know where to start, and obviously I would have to consult materials on items I'm less knowledgeable like Justinian or Theodoric.

If you have time, I suggest you to open three separate topics for each of the questions in this forum and let the brainstorm work alone...

I will just limit my apporattion to the 1st question (and will exclude Theodoric by the moment):

Charlemagne's state is archetypical of the Upper Middle Ages. Like other Germanic kingdoms the Frankish realm was born as forederati (allied) of the Empire and was its "legitimate" successor. Unlike other Germanic states, Franks accepted Catholicism and didn't attempt to keep an ethnic apartheid, what probably helped them to prosper in the long run.

Roman Empire was already feudal and Christian at its fall, German invaders only took over the administration, introducing little if any Germanic custom or law. Probably the Germanic tradition is the less important of the three mentioned.

The Roman one though was essential: Western Europeans felt Romans (Latins) at that time (with some exceptions like Basques surely), spoke Vulgar Latin and were used to Roman law. Romans had also introduced already most of the feudal and Christian elements that would shape the Middle Ages, though these "innovations" had found some resistences (Bagaudae mostly) and probably helped to percieve German invaders as a lesser evil too.

When the Western Empire collapsed, only the foederati and the Catholic Church stood as institutions. Literacy became secluded into monasteries and the Church was the only diplomatic and adminitrative infrastructure of any relevance.

So we have:
  1. A Germanic tradition with very limited influence
  2. A Roman culture that had self-destroyed itself largely in the process of Christianization and feudalization
  3. A Catholic Church that was the only standing element of cohesion (though there were dissidents too, like the Arian Goths and Bebers)
No wonder that whatever was created after a period of transition was largely articulated by the Church: it was the Empire of Charlemagne, later called Holy Roman Empire.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 08:48

Alright, I could add a bit about Theoderic:

He was originally an Ostrogoth king ruling a territory  in the Balkans. He obtainbed permission from Emperor Zeno to remove Odoacer from the throne of Italy. By force of arms and treachery, he eventaully did so, and established himself as king of Italy. At this time, the Roman administrative and cultural institutions were still in place, and Theoderic did nothing to remove them. He had 2 sets of laws: one for his Goth subjects (based on the blood feud I believe), and another for his Roman subjects based on the old Roman laws. He even maintained the Senate during his reign. The Ostrogoths however were minoritary in Italy and what is worse, they were Arian Christians, compared to the Athanasian ("Catholic") latin subjects. Even though Theodric's rule was benevolent, this generated friction between the Goths and the Romans. The kingdom became weaker and weaker  under his succesors, until it was overrun by the Lombards. So to sum it up, we have

1. a preservation of the Roman social institutions, as well as a part of the Roman aristocracy.

2. a cohabitation betwen a Goth aristocracy and the Roman majority, each with their own laws

3. Frictions based on religious differences: Aryan vs Catholic/Athanasian



Edited by Decebal
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Leonardo View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jan-2006
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 778
  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 14:52
Originally posted by Decebal

The kingdom became weaker and weaker  under his succesors, until it was overrun by the Lombards.

 

Really it was overrun by the Byzantines (= eastern Romans)

Back to Top
Cunctator View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 12-Feb-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
  Quote Cunctator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 22:03

Trying to answer who had more power, church or emperor, in 800 is fairly easy to answer. It was Charlemagne. Had the Pope the same or greater power than the Carolingian ruler, he would not have needed Charlemagne's help when the Lombards threatened Rome.

On the other hand, asking who had the most authority is much more difficult to answer. Charlemagne became an emperor only because a Pope crowned him -- only a pope had the authority to restore the Roman Empire in the West. Of course this raises the whole issue of that particular coronation ceremony, did Charlemagne know what was about to happen (I think he did) or did the Pope suddenly crown him? What was the meaning in that time of the political theatre represented by the coronation -- and on Christmas Day!!! -- ceremony?

Lots of room for discussion, I think.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.