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Problem with MS408

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arsenka View Drop Down
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  Quote arsenka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Problem with MS408
    Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 06:12

 Recently I've come across a very interesting link that puzzled me greately. Here is it:

www.voynich.nu/

Quote:

"In 1912, the antiquarian book dealer Wilfrid M. Voynich bought a number of mediaeval manuscripts from an undisclosed location in Europe. Among these was an illustrated manuscript codex of 234 pages, written in an unknown script.

Voynich took the MS to the United States and started a campaign to have it deciphered. Now, almost 100 years later, the Voynich manuscript still stands as probably the most elusive puzzle in the world of cryptography. Not a single word of this 'Most Mysterious Manuscript', written probably in the second half of the 15th Century, can be understood.

Marci Attached to the manuscript was a letter in Latin dated 1666 from Johannes Marcus Marci of Kronland, once rector of the Charles University of Prague, to the learned Jesuit Athanasius Kircher in Rome, offering the manuscript for decryption and mentioning that it had once been bought by Emperor Rudolf II of Bohemia (1552-1612) for 600 gold ducats. The letter further mentioned that it was believed that the author of the MS was Roger Bacon (the Franciscan friar who lived from 1214 to 1294).

Another early owner of the MS was identified by Voynich when, on the lower margin of the first folio, under special illumination, the erased signature of Jacobus de Tepenec was found. Tepenec was one of Rudolf's private physicians and the director of his botanical gardens and he must have owned the manuscript between 1608, when he received his title "de Tepenec", and 1622, when he died. The MS has changed hands sevetal times, and despite some minor gaps in our knowledge its path from the court of Rudolf to its final resting place, the Beinecke Rare book library of Yale University, can be traced fairly accurately.

The MS became famous when, in the 1920's, William Romaine Newbold proposed a spectacular decipherment with which he meant to prove that it was indeed written by Roger Bacon, and that Bacon had not only dreamt of, but actually built microscopes and telescopes. When this 'solution' of the MS was disproven by John M. Manly in 1931, the MS gradually became a pariah in world of mediaeval studies. In the 1940's and 1960's the eminent cryptanalyst William F. Friedman made several valiant attempts at deciphering the MS, aided by groups of experts, but also he did not find any solution."

I'm not specialist at the field it concerns but I'm deadly curious about this problem. I've been trying to decipher MS 408 too but unsuccessfully. On AE we have people speaking all possible languages (or almost so) - may be anyone could do it or give some useful advice.

Still puzzled

Arsenka

PS: Maybe it's just sort of fake? What do you think? 

arsenka
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 07:25
Alphabet looks Armenian...

Eastern Armenian alphabet

Eastern Armenian alphabet

Western Armenian alphabet

Western Armenian alphabet

Armenian punctuation

Armenian punctuation



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 02:22
Found it!!!

It's Agrippa's Theban Angelic Script.

It's an esotheric script of Agrippa's creation and can be transcribes directly into Latin script, letter by letter.



See:

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 02:29
I think not: I was comparing from memmory.  

Ehm... what about Ge'ez (ancient Ethiopian), also in that table above?

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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 18:57
I think that it is an invented script. I remember reading about it, and the article said that the alphabet doesn't appear to be associated with any used alphabet. I think a lot of cryptologists have worked on this document: they wouldn't have missed something like that.
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
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Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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  Quote arsenka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 03:52

THat's not the new question, I know, but that's challenging.

"I think that it is an invented script."

 Me too. It'd be much worse if it were written in an invented language.  And it's hardly probable, I think. I have some ideas on the point. May be I'm wrong, I don't know.

Admitting this MS isn't pure fake (one can't  exclude this possibility also) we should admit it was supposed to be used by some secluded group of people - maybe monastic brethern or anything else. > MS must have been written in a language familiar to them. That's easier to suppose that MS's readers were given some key to MS's cypher (if they were allowed to read it) rather than that they were taught some new language invented especially for this MS's sake. (If this MS weren't the only document written in this new language somebody somewhere somehow must have heard about it; and nobody did as far as I know )

Thus, with high level of probability the language should be usual: Latin, Greek, Arab, Hebrew or anything else. That's written in an invented script. > Every invented letter means the particular letter of some language really existing. > Logically considering it can be deciphered.

My problem is that I'm not too strong in the languages abovementioned. That's why I'm asking for the help of our multilingual society.

Maju, I appreciate your messages greatly, though I don't think it's Ge'ez. You've pushed me against some ideas that didn't occur to me before. Remember Eco: "Let's guess at first what kind the book we are looking for should be of."

arsenka
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2017 at 10:09
It's been 11 years since this thread started, and there is still no positive answer to the mystery.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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