the relation between Tibet and ming

Ming inherited tibet from the yuan dynasty.we were vasssals to ming though their authority was pretty non existent in central tibet.

Originally posted by tommy But many people of Tibet did not want to recognize that.They say China"invade tibet" in 1949, before this. Tibet was an inpendent state.

There's a difference between being a vassal and a part of the empire.

From what I gather Tibet was a vassal to the Ming and part of the empire of the Qing.

What happened after the Qing fell apart, I don't know.

Until the Chinese Civil war, in which they broke away from the Republic of China, only to be swallowed again by the People's republic of China.

After the downfall of the the Qing Tibet seems to have been still a part of China, but it seems that in 1913 both Tibet and Mongolia signed a treaty delcaring their independence from China, although its sovereignity wasn't widely recognized.

Chinas just lucky the CIA didnt support the insurgency there earlier.

How many monastaries were destroyed?

Let's not get off-topic to modern Issues...

It seems like Tibet did have some relations as a vassal to the Ming, but I think the term "Vassal" may be used too loosly here, since vassals were very common. Vassals can also be derived solely from personal relationship between head of states rather than actual politics.

In any case, the Ming definately had less political control, if much at all, over Tibet than the Yuan and the Qing, both of which exerted influence over Tibet through appointment of rulers.

Yes, but also interestingly is that Altan Khan was also a vassal of Ming, therefore indirectly Tibet is also a vassal of late Ming.

"LOL, being a vasall never stopped him from raiding the Chinese borderlands - OTOH at times, being in war with the ming didn't stop him from being a vasall

things are apparently not that easy. giving someone a nice title doesn't equal having any influence on him."

 

lol, I think you are confused here. Altan never raided Chinese border after he became a vassal, only before.

 

Tibet lost its independece after Manchu conqured it. It regained it for a while untill communist take over

Originally posted by honeybee lol, I think you are confused here. Altan never raided Chinese border after he became a vassal, only before.

Damn, you got me there.  Altan Khan was allowed to become a vasall in 1571, after decades of war with China. The Dalai Lama affair took place in the late 1570s. Altan Khan died in 1582 (or 1581?).

Anyway, one vasall meddling with another vasall's internal affairs without the liege having any say doesn't really sound as if either Tibetans or Mongolians accepted the Ming as masters.

On the other hand, Altan Khan's influence in Tibet was apparently much less than that of the Khoshuud some years later. No real surprise, given that he died only some years after the appointment of the Dalai Lama.