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Arab-Israeli War of 1973

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Kapikulu View Drop Down
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Arab-Israeli War of 1973
    Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 21:41

The Yom Kippur War, also named like that, The Arab-Israeli War is the final Arab-Israeli War and a different mark on the history.

The Israelis were caught on surprise in their holy day, Yom Kippur feast, and even though the war ending with neither sides victory, this war showed that Arabs still were able to fight against Israel all by themselves.

This boosted up the morale in Arab world after the Six-Day War in 1967, and later had an important impact on the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty and Israel leaving Sinai back to Egypt

Some interesting facts I derived:

-Ariel Sharon pretended like he was wounded from his head, by twisting a bandage around his head. Some say he wasn't wounded at all, and did that as a part of his showbiz

- As I read in Anwar Sadat's autobiography, he was telling that as soon as Israelis lost tanks, Americans were instantly replacing them with new ones.Anwar Sadat says if the intensive American aid wasn't there, they could have won the Yom Kippur War.

-Polish war journalist Ryszard Kapuscinski has an interesting determination about the attitudes in both sides...He states that at the time of war, while all the Israelis rushed to the front to defend their state, and folk concentrating on war, many Syrians were still smoking their water pipes just 20 km far from the frontline

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we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Kilikya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 03:55

Yeah, well the Russians were replacing Arab losses just as quickly. That's why it was the last (if you can call it last)

Arab-Israeli War...because it became clear that any futre war would be a World War. Anyway, Sadat himself agrees

that the only purpose of the war was to make it the last. Which led to Camp David.

On another note- I find Kapuscinski about as good as they get.

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 15:33

Yeah, well the Russians were replacing Arab losses just as quickly. That's why it was the last (if you can call it last)

Not as quickly. IIRC, Egypt expelled the Soviet advisers before the attack. This was because they didn't trust anyone with the attack plan.

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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 18:12

its 100% true that the americans were replacing every peice of equipment the israeli's lost, and in one case, bombarding arab troops and armor with a super sonic jet.

 

but i never heard of the soviets helping the arabs.

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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 22:51
It is also logistically impossible for Soviets to help Arabs that much efficiently.
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Kilikya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 02:25

 

Sure- some, but not all of the over 20-000 soviet military advisers were expelled but Egypt was still mostly a Soviet client state.  Soviet advisers planned the 'crossing' itself and Soviet resupply was measured as equal to the US resupply of Israel.

In fact- peace was never an Israeli->Egyptian affair- it was a US-Soviet-Israeli-Egyptian affair.

Sadat wanted to end the idea that an Arab-Israeli peace had to be between winners and losers.  he wanted to prove that they could fight on an equal footing and thus gain a 'fair' peace.  Egypt could not possibly do that on its own against a US supplied Israel

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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 15:20
Originally posted by Kilikya

 

 Egypt was still mostly a Soviet client state. 

I think, that arugument is very close to american point of view only.

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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 17:35

The Yom Kippur war was the closest the Arab forces came to defeating Israel. In the Golan Heights, the Syrians were only about a half hour away from breaking through Israeli lines when IDF reinforcements finally arrived and stopped the advance.

In the Sinai, the Egyptians overran most of the Israeli forces on the East bank of the Suez canal and were advancing quickly towards Israel.

Modern weapons supplied by the Soviets as well as training made life very hard for the IDF both on the ground and in the air. Weapons like the SA-6 were responsible for the destruction of 1/4 of the IAF in the air.

On the ground Arab soldiers armed with AT-3 Sagger guided missiles destroyed a large number of Israeli tanks.

The Soviets provided reconnaissance to the Arab forces from satellite photography and the U.S. countered by deploying the SR-71 Blackbird to provide reconnaissance to the Israelis. The Israelis were also supplied by both America and France with replacement aircraft and tanks. 

The IDF was able to mobilize in 48 hours and stopped Arab advances both in the north and south.

 



Edited by DukeC
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 17:54
Originally posted by Kilikya

Sure- some, but not all of the over 20-000 soviet military advisers were expelled but Egypt was still mostly a Soviet client state.  Soviet advisers planned the 'crossing' itself and Soviet resupply was measured as equal to the US resupply of Israel.

In fact- peace was never an Israeli->Egyptian affair- it was a US-Soviet-Israeli-Egyptian affair.

Sadat wanted to end the idea that an Arab-Israeli peace had to be between winners and losers.  he wanted to prove that they could fight on an equal footing and thus gain a 'fair' peace.  Egypt could not possibly do that on its own against a US supplied Israel

In fact, Egypt had to be a Soviet client state. American policy was to defend and support Israel at all costs, so Egypt also needed a superpower to support herself.

But I totally agree on the remarks that you made on 2nd and 3rd parts...Sadat wanted to show they could fight with Israelis without being defeated, and restored the honor of Arabs, in his point of view.

It had become a US-Soviet affair,and then they set a final curtain on it, rather then making a world war out of it

We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Kilikya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 03:27

 

 

It's close to an American point of view but certainly not 'only'.  I'm ready to hear other points of view.

As you well know during the cold war it was basically a must to take sides, not out of ideological conviction but out of neccessty. Not even a 'non allied'like Nasser could effectively do without support from one or the other.  

In fact Sadat wanted to 'change sides' but had to find the right excuse. The Yom Kippur War provided the excuse.  Not long after the war Egypt turned into a US client state.  Or is that a radical Islamist only point of view?

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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 11:36
Regardless of the outcome of the war, it was a victory for Israel, as Israel is still there.  The Arabs wanted to destroy Israel completely.  However, they failed.  The 1973 war was a victory for Israel as their nation is still intact (with Jerusalem) thus accomplishing their objective.  It was a defeat for the Arabs as they failed in their objective, which was to destroy Israel.  It does not matter who recieved American or Soviet aid.  Israel could argue that the Arabs had an unfair advantage due to their access to suicide bombers.  Either way, its obvious who ultimately won the war.
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 12:09

1973 Yom Kippur War was definitely not a victory for Israel.If Israel is still there, it is not because of such an imaginative victory in 1973, it is because of Western states' support, plus the wars of 1947-48 and 1967 Six-Day War.

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we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 21:51
I guess I am looking at the situation differently than you.  I'm looking at it from the standpoint of, did either side accomplish its overall objective in the conflict.  The objective of the Arab nations was to completely destroy Israel.  The objective of Israel was the opposite, theirs was to survive.  As the nation of Israel still exists, I would have to say that they won, or at least prevented the Arabs from winning.  The fact that Israel recieved American aid is not relevant as that is just another factor that aided them in surviving and therefore winning.
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  Quote Kilikya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 03:17

 

 

The objective of Egypt in 1973 was not to destroy Israel.  It was Sadats explicit purpose to create a negotiated solution (he wanted a solution for all Arabs but was outmaneuvered during negotiationsd and got a solution only acceptable to Egypt)- eliminate Egypts dependence on the Russians and get Egypt to get on with its life. 

On the other hand-yes Israel survives.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 20:31

Well, the war ended with the Israelis being 101 km from Cairo and, according to Sadat, with only 2 batallions of the Egyptian troops  remaining to defend the city. ...The Egyptian armies were surrounded in Sinai, and had no supplies (the first concern after the armistice was to supply them with water).

 The Syrians had their invading forces destroyed and the Israelis were withing an artillery range to Damascus.

Rather strange definitions of  Arab "victory" you have, guys....

 As to the Americans bombing the Arab forces, this is yet another repetition of the "Big Lie" of the 1967 war, when the Arabs announced the same. BTW, the man who "detected" the American airforce then was none other than the current President Mubarak, a former pilot. The Americans and the Israelis even taped the phone conversation between Nasser and King Hussein, in which Mr. Gamal lied to his ally (Hussein) once again about Israeli losses and at the same time both agreed that they would go public with an announcement of the active American participation. It made President Johnson so angry that he refused to talk with Nasser afterwards!

 In 1973, the Arabs did prove they could catch the Israelis with the pants down and to inflict losses.  But no matter what, the Arabs lost the war.

 As to Sharon pretending being wounded... It is sheer nonsense: the man fought enough wars and was wounded so many times that one more did not count. Having invaded Africa and having destroyed the Egyptian  army to smithereens, he surely had no need for theatrics.

 



Edited by vladimir
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 21:16
Originally posted by vladimir

Well, the war ended with the Israelis being 101 km from Cairo and, according to Sadat, with only 2 batallions of the Egyptian troops  remaining to defend the city. ...The Egyptian armies were surrounded in Sinai, and had no supplies (the first concern after the armistice was to supply them with water).

 The Syrians had their invading forces destroyed and the Israelis were withing an artillery range to Damascus.

Rather strange definitions of  Arab "victory" you have, guys....

 As to the Americans bombing the Arab forces, this is yet another repetition of the "Big Lie" of the 1967 war, when the Arabs announced the same. BTW, the man who "detected" the American airforce then was none other than the current President Mubarak, a former pilot. The Americans and the Israelis even taped the phone conversation between Nasser and King Hussein, in which Mr. Gamal lied to his ally (Hussein) once again about Israeli losses and at the same time both agreed that they would go public with an announcement of the active American participation. It made President Johnson so angry that he refused to talk with Nasser afterwards!

 In 1973, the Arabs did prove they could catch the Israelis with the pants down and to inflict losses.  But no matter what, the Arabs lost the war.

 As to Sharon pretending being wounded... It is sheer nonsense: the man fought enough wars and was wounded so many times that one more did not count. Having invaded Africa and having destroyed the Egyptian  army to smithereens, he surely had no need for theatrics.

 

I didn't see anyone calling any Arab victory in the thread...

What you say about Six-Day War is true, definitely a disaster for all Arab world.

Actually, USA didn't need to bomb by using his planes, and she didn't, Israel already had the upper hand in 67 War and destroyed the Arab airforce too early..USA just replaced the tanks of Israel instead, in 73.

The phone call between Nasser and King Hussein is another interesting event. With that call, Nasser had persuaded the king to join the war in his side.

The Yom Kippur War of 73, was definitely not a loss for Arabs, it is better to call it a "draw".

Hosny Mubarak was the commander of Egyptian airforce, not just a pilot

But these wars, really show how important determination is...Check the part from Polish journalist R.Kapuscinski I gave when opening the thread.



Edited by Kapikulu
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Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 23:52

israel's vulnerable became very apparent during the last war.

because of israel's small size and population, no matter how strong its military was, it wouold most like still get degeated with the US help.

this is why israel insists that it needs nukes. everyone agrees that israel, with the nukes or US help would have lost.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2006 at 22:51

Israel's small size is a disadvantage, but they have never come close to losing any war.  The topic of Israel recieving American help keeps coming up.  Its true that they have American assistance.  However, the arab nations recieved assistance from the now defunct Soviet Union during the wars mentioned.  Israel has never lost a war against the arabs and I doubt they ever will.

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2006 at 23:44
They will. Be patient... time is extense as the grains of sand of the desert... I'm sure the crusaders also thought they would never be expelled either... 

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2006 at 16:29
I am in favor of Israel. I think it will outlast more than you think
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