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Topic ClosedConvert Hagia Sophia back to a church
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Convert Hagia Sophia back to a church
    Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 23:42
Its a museum, its not neglected. 
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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3151 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 23:45
Anyone who is in Rome, whether Christian, Pagan, or Muslim, may enter the Vatican City. I was there a few years back and visited St' Peters and the Museusm. I sure wasn't a catholic.


However, St. Peters does have dress codes you have to adhere to if you want to walk inside.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
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R_AK47 View Drop Down
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Posts: 468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 00:33

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Its a museum, its not neglected. 

I read an article somewhere that stated that UNESCO noted falling plaster, deteriorating paint, broken windows, and damaged lead roofing.  It was in an archeology magazine.
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Posts: 77 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 03:30
Is this the article you are referring to?

http://www.unesco.org/archi2000/pdf/ozil.pdf
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Posts: 468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 10:33
Yes I think that is it.
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Posts: 468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 15:44
Where is the large, gold cross that used to be located on the top of the church at now?
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2006 at 15:48

haha

latins stolen it.

Go bash them.

 
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 04:11
Mortaza wrote:
"haha

latins stolen it.

Go bash them."

Mortaza, on one thread your talking about religous sensativities over a cartoon and how seroius we westerners should take them. On here you laugh at defacing of a once grand church, despite orthodox sensativities.

Ok i have to get something of my chest,

A couple of posts in responding to AK47 (on both threads) were just as dissapointing and unnessacry as he is annoying. No matter how you feel about some of thse forumers/posts/topics, not all of us deserve to read such insensative posts when we look at these threads. While I do recognise many others did not get tempted to get at  AK47 by making fun of the subject and showed good restraint.

I think there is a bit of double standards when on one 'sensative' subject its all seroius  and on another its . Subjects that are linked to religoius sensativities should have a degree of respect from all sides.
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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 04:25

Mortaza, on one thread your talking about religous sensativities over a cartoon and how seroius we westerners should take them. On here you laugh at defacing of a once grand church, despite orthodox sensativities.

No, I am not, I am making fun with  AK47, cant you see,his aim  is  only bash Turks, If his aim is church, I just showed who should be bashed.(I think I played  a sensitive area,I am sorry)

I  am not laughing defacing of Aya Sofia, I am laughing stupity of AK47.

Infact I have great respect for Aya Sofia(both as a church and mosque)
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 04:54
Mortaza wrote:
"No, I am not, I am making fun with  AK47, cant you see,his aim  is  only bash Turks, If his aim is church, I just showed who should be bashed.(I think I played  a sensitive area,I am sorry)"
I know your reasonable and repesctful from past conversations thats why i was disapointed, its cool. There has been too many jokes on the two hagia sophia threads and i think your post was the unlucky last straw. I know i have also been unwittingly insensative in the past so wont go on.

"I  am not laughing defacing of Aya Sofia, I am laughing stupity of AK47."
That was the killer for me but now i know the direction of the laughter. He doesnt know much about turkey, but if he grows up he can learn, (like i have) from the turks here.
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 05:11
Originally posted by Leonidas

Mortaza wrote:
"haha

latins stolen it.

Go bash them."

Mortaza, on one thread your talking about religous sensativities over a cartoon and how seroius we westerners should take them. On here you laugh at defacing of a once grand church, despite orthodox sensativities.

Although I am in full agreement over the hypcorisy, this guy has been bashing Turks/Muslims for converting the Hagia Sophia and defeating Byzantium, he is like a Pan Christian nationalist. I think Mortaza was pointing out the irony of the matter as in, "look who stole it! will u go and bash them now? Unlikely!". IMO having a laugh with a guy over his extreme views of what should be done over very very old historical events is not tantamount to making fun of the holy trinity and doing your best to insult Christians. 

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Posts: 2408 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 06:18
Originally posted by Mortaza

haha

latins stolen it.

Go bash them.

 

Translation/explanation of this:

R_ak47 says "Where is the large, gold cross that used to be located on the top of the church at now? "

Mortaza wanna say: "Venetians (it whas a horse statue) and the western crusaders stole it, what you gonna do now? Bashing them or find a way to blaim Turks again?"

Ive learnd a lot of things of the Greeks also, if i was the one who should hate Greeks because of a stupid joke (by a guy who doesnt represent all Greek population) i wasnt here for the moment.

 
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
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Digenis View Drop Down
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Posts: 694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 18:22
The fact is that a wonder of architecture is collapsing because the state of Turkey unfortunately is not in a satisfying level of culture...

:"restoration" lasts for years and years,just to reduce the beauty of the monument.(everywhere iron staging)
The church is painted red!!! i dont know whose idea was that-to look like the turkish flag maybe ?? and it has to be painted for years.
Low quality fashion shows ,where video screens(!) were used where organised in it.

At least the building survived,and didnt has the end of thousand other medieval greek monuments of Asia Minor that are lost for ever.
1000 years of byzantine presence in Asia minor ...and very few things survived.

Unfortunately Turkey has a loooong way to do,to reach a cultural level similar to the european.Its a better aim to follow before having a desparate hope to enter the European Union.



Edited by Digenis
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strategos View Drop Down
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Posts: 1096 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 18:26
There is no reason to convert it back to a church, soon there will be no more greek christians left in Istanbul. That is worse than the Hagia Sophia being a museum.

Edited by strategos
http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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erci View Drop Down
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Posts: 1426 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 22:15
why there won't be any greeks left in Istanbul?
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Posts: 1096 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 22:20

Originally posted by erci

why there won't be any greeks left in Istanbul?

You mean why won't there be any greeks left in istanbul? There are only 2,000 greeks left living there, and most are elderly people.
http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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erci View Drop Down
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Posts: 1426 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 22:30
ah I see.If the number you gave is correct then why is there a lot of greek churches in Istanbul?
we should close or convert them to museums if they won't be in use
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Posts: 1096 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 22:37

Originally posted by erci

ah I see.If the number you gave is correct then why is there a lot of greek churches in Istanbul?
we should close or convert them to museums if they won't be in use

Well, Istanbul(Constantinople) did have a big greek christian population at one time.. Besides, Greece has many churches itself, but many are small and only small amounts of people go to them.

Might as well convert them to mosques actually, many mosques are just remade churches.. Museums are fine too.

If you think my number is ridiculous, do you have one then?
http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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R_AK47 View Drop Down
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Posts: 468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 23:12
Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by Leonidas

Mortaza wrote:
"haha

latins stolen it.

Go bash them."

Mortaza, on one thread your talking about religous sensativities over a cartoon and how seroius we westerners should take them. On here you laugh at defacing of a once grand church, despite orthodox sensativities.

Although I am in full agreement over the hypcorisy, this guy has been bashing Turks/Muslims for converting the Hagia Sophia and defeating Byzantium, he is like a Pan Christian nationalist. I think Mortaza was pointing out the irony of the matter as in, "look who stole it! will u go and bash them now? Unlikely!". IMO having a laugh with a guy over his extreme views of what should be done over very very old historical events is not tantamount to making fun of the holy trinity and doing your best to insult Christians. 

I seem to remember seeing a post on here where you, Zagros, wrote something to the effect of praising Allah and adding more minarets to Hagia Sophia and several Catholic churches.  I believe that is probably as nationalistic as some of my postings.  While some of my ideas may seem extreme, something needs to be done to preserve this building, from what I'm reading it is deteriorating fast.  If returned to Orthodox use, I am sure that the Orthodox community would find the money and resources to preserve it. 

About the cross on the top, I know there was one still there when the city fell in 1453, because I read somewhere about a Turk that climbed to the top to pull it off.  If that was the original one I don't know. 

I have read the posts of other people on these forums.  After seeing so much interest in Byzantium, I thought that more members would support the idea of Hagia Sophia being returned to church status.  Very little of Byzantium survives to this day.  Fortunately, we can still save one of the most impressive remnants of it.
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Constantine XI View Drop Down
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Posts: 5711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 23:27

Originally posted by R_AK47

I have read the posts of other people on these forums.  After seeing so much interest in Byzantium, I thought that more members would support the idea of Hagia Sophia being returned to church status.  Very little of Byzantium survives to this day.  Fortunately, we can still save one of the most impressive remnants of it.

Yes it is true, AE has a sizeable number of Byzantinists, both professional and casual amateurs. But the fact that many of us have an interest in this great civilisation does not necessarily mean we want to go about resurrecting the Byzantine Empire.

The measure proposed is considered a national affront to many who live in the same city as Haghia Sophia. I flippantly commented that it should be turned into a nightclub, flippantly because I believe that Haghia Sophia might as well be turned into a neutral object of public enjoyment rather than something highly divisive that will cause strife and conflict. Terrorist attacks have already occured in Istanbul. If you really care about preserving this legacy of Byzantium, which do you think is less likely to see it attacked by extremists: turning it into a church or leaving it as a secular building for all to enjoy?
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