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Topic ClosedConvert Hagia Sophia back to a church

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Convert Hagia Sophia back to a church
    Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 00:52

magnificent

tho 2 more minarets would make it even better and maybe a larger crescent on top
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 01:15
Thats a great picture
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 01:19

I prefer this one.  Much better.  But it needs a restored statue of Emperor Justinian placed on the front part of it.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 01:21

We could rebuild the Church of the Holy Apostles next to Hagia Sophia (where it used to be).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 02:41

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

I believe it is a museum now, partly or wholely but I may be wrong.

Besides why would you want to?

Exactly,my Pakistani friend...

This thread is nothing more than a garbage as the title suggests....

 

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 04:12

Originally posted by Mila

Wherever the altar used to be, wherever the setting is right. It really doesn't matter to me where it is, I imagine the Christians would know the proper place. Nothing is impossible, especially not re-arranging some things in a museum.

No really the interior has been quite changed, so it would be difficult.  Plus there is another problem, some people would not want it changed(like mortaza).  They would make life very hard for you if you made an attempt to change it

It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 23:20
So what if the interior has been changed.  It can easily be changed back to the way it used to/should be.  I wonder what the greek/orthodox members on AE think about this.  I have not seen any posts from them on this subject.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 04:57
  R_AK47 wrote:
"I have not seen any posts from them on this subject."
actually you dont here much with me coz i already raised constantinople here
and the aghia sophia aghia irini little further

I want them restored, i think its the right thing to do, but that is wishful thinking. In the end it will be up to the turks not the greeks on what happens with those buildings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 06:18
@R_AK47
do you have to start a million threads on this?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 13:39

Originally posted by Leonidas

  R_AK47 wrote:
"I have not seen any posts from them on this subject."
actually you dont here much with me coz i already raised constantinople here
and the aghia sophia aghia irini little further

I want them restored, i think its the right thing to do, but that is wishful thinking. In the end it will be up to the turks not the greeks on what happens with those buildings.

Hagia Irene!  I almost forgot about that.  Perhaps I should start a post about Hagia Irene next.  And then there is the Cora Church, SS Sergius and Bachus, and others.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 20:47
what about you make one thread with all your issues and stop creating new threads about every church.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 05:05

Originally posted by R_AK47

Hagia Irene!  I almost forgot about that.  Perhaps I should start a post about Hagia Irene next.  And then there is the Cora Church, SS Sergius and Bachus, and others.

I think you are talking about Aya Irini.... Well, it is well preserved concert hall. It has never converted to a mosque and used as granary in the garden of Topkapi Palace. In 19.th century it has been used as military museum and in year 1993 the restoration works ended and building is still in use as a concert hall. As you see there is a big cross on the top respecting to its past. In Aya Irini there are turkish classical, western classical, religious musics of all religions, modern dance etc. entertainments.

There are tens of Greek Orthodox Churches in Istanbul as you can see from the list below with their addresses that can be used for your religious needs.

We are expecting a mosque, at least one mosque, in Athens for the needs of Muslims. But even for Olympic games a mosque can not be buit in the city. I wonder why? In holy days of Islam, Muslims are praying in the stadiums or empty places. You can make a restoration for Fethiye Mosque of Ottomans in Athens for example. We are hoping that, European Union, the champion of cultural rights, telorance, democracy, human rights, multi-culturalism and every other goods things will also deal with this problem in the future.   The same problem exists for Tessaloniki. Once there were 70 mosques in the city but now it remained only two ruined ones.

We demand only one mosque in Athens and one for Tessaloniki.......

Greek Orthodox  Churches In Istanbul


 

Hagia Yorgi Fener Greek Orthodox
Patriarch Church
Sadrazam Ali Pasa Caddesi No. 35
Fener, Eyup
(212) 531 9670-76
Hagia Triada Greek Orthodox Church
Mesale Sokak No. 11 Taksim
(212) 244 1358
Hagia Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church
Unkapani
 
Hagia Mary Greek Orthodox Church
Tevkii cafer Mektebi Sokak Fener
Hagia Panaya Isodoryon Greek Orthodox Church
Nevruza Sokak Galatasaray
 
Hagia Therapon Greek Orthodox Church
Alemdar Caddesi Sultanahmet Gulhane
Hagia Yorgi Greek Orthodox Church
Buyukada
 
Hagia Nicola Greek Orthodox Church
Heybeli Ada
Hagia Panaya Kamariotissa Greek Orthodox Church
Heybeli Ada
 
Hagia Yorgi Greek Orthodox Church
Heybeli Ada
Hagia Triada Greek Orthodox Church
Heybeli Ada
 
Hagia Dimitri Kanabu Greek Orthodox Church
Kirkambar Sokak No. 12 Balat
Hagia Panaya Elida Greek Orthodox Church
Gerdanlik Sokak No.4 kumkapi
 
Hagia Euphemie Greek Orthodox Church
Muhurdar Caddesi Kadikoy
Hagia Heleni Constantin Greek Orthodox Church
Kalyoncukullugu Caddesi No. 176 Tarlabasi
 
Hagia Salamatomruk Panaya Greek Orthodox Church
salamatomruk caddesi No. 43 Edirnekapi
 
Hagia Yorgi Cypres Greek Orthodox Church
Samatya Caddesi Samatya Kocamustafapasa
 
Hagia Menas Greek Orthodox Church
Bestekar Hakki Bey Sokak No 1 Samatya Kocamustafapasa
 
Hagia Jean Chrysostom Constantinople Greek Orthodox Church
Kalamis Fenerbahce Kadikoy
 
Hagia Yorgi Greek Orthodox Church
Kuleli Caddesi Cengelkoy
 

http://www.istanbulinfolink.com/place_of_worship/churches/ch ristian_4.htm



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 05:58
Originally posted by Alparslan

We are expecting a mosque, at least one mosque, in Athens for the needs of Muslims. But even for Olympic games a mosque can not be buit in the city. I wonder why? In holy days of Islam, Muslims are praying in the stadiums or empty places. You can make a restoration for Fethiye Mosque of Ottomans in Athens for example. [...]  The same problem exists for Tessaloniki. Once there were 70 mosques in the city but now it remained only two ruined ones.

We demand only one mosque in Athens and one for Tessaloniki.......



I understand the problem as it exists in Athens and in Thessaloniki, however, that is not to say that the very populous Turkish minority in Western Thrace does not enjoy Mosques.

However, if the restoration of the Fethiye Mosque of Ottomans is made, are you saying that Hagia Sophia will be restored to its original owner, the Orthodox Church?


We are hoping that, European Union, the champion of cultural rights, telorance, democracy, human rights, multi-culturalism and every other goods things will also deal with this problem in the future. 


How can this be, for since 1955, when many Greeks from Constantinople/Istanbul were forced to leave from the resultant pogroms, no resititution has been made, nor do Greeks in the city enjoy hereditary rights as their fellow countrymen there.

People, understand that I have no qualm or gripe with Turkiye or its citizens, but this tit-for-tat, tedious quarreling bogs down in circular argumentation with holier-than-thou attitude being displayed, over and over again.

Again, I pick up on the theme of democracy and human rights as posted in the other thread on this same issue.

I believe that Athens should restore the mosques. Are those living in Constantinople/Istanbul willing to make the same concessions?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 06:39
According to the Treaty of Lausanne,the Muslim population of western Thrace and the christian population of Istanbul,Imvros and Tenedos were excluded from the exchange.However,from the initial population of 110.000 christian greeks of Istanbul in 1942,there are only a few now left and the Patriarch,after the pogrom in 1955 and later.Those that left their fortunes back in Istanbul,were not compensated.Also the same happened to the Greeks of Imvros and Tenedos.Their lands were confiscated by the Turkish state.
On the other hand,the Muslim Greek citizens of western Thrace in 1981 were 120.000 and their rights are respected by everyone,as citizens of Greece.They have numerous Mosques and schools for their needs.
Double standards
When Turkey becomes a member of the EU,huge money will be paid to those that suffered from the Turkish pogrom as compensation.You must be prepared to pay..
Why don't you open the theological school of Halki.How can the christian minority educate its priests without  a theological school?
When the Greeks were asked to leave Turkey,it was asked from them to become Muslim,did you know this?




Edited by RomiosArktos
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 05:04

errr.

Romios, I think you have no   knowledge what happened at both side.

Firstly greeks left county after they sell their properties, infact They left country because they  afraid of. So I dont know what do you mean with compensated.

So I dont know why turkey should pay greeks.

For greece, it is also not much beatiful, infact greece goverment dont even let turkish minority choose their own muftu.

60.000 turkish citizenship abolished by greece,  and turkish minority can even call themself as turkish.

Why don't you open the theological school of Halki.How can the christian minority educate its priests without  a theological school?

Again this is half-true, Patriach can open this school, but he should accept turkish rules, and this rules are same for imam schools.

 

 


 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 05:37

Originally posted by RomiosArktos

According to the Treaty of Lausanne,the Muslim population of western Thrace and the christian population of Istanbul,Imvros and Tenedos were excluded from the exchange.However,from the initial population of 110.000 christian greeks of Istanbul in 1942,there are only a few now left and the Patriarch,after the pogrom in 1955 and later.

There is no such pogrom-shameful things happened-that is right and money will be paid if reuested-but I don't think you know the definiton of pogrom-and that so called "pogrom" is not proven-nor wiely accepted, I think the Greeks are the only people that call it pogrom



Edited by The Guardian
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 05:39

Originally posted by RomiosArktos

When the Greeks were asked to leave Turkey,it was asked from them to become Muslim,did you know this?

no such thing happened

It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 06:01
Originally posted by The Guardian

Originally posted by RomiosArktos

According to the Treaty of Lausanne,the Muslim population of western Thrace and the christian population of Istanbul,Imvros and Tenedos were excluded from the exchange.However,from the initial population of 110.000 christian greeks of Istanbul in 1942,there are only a few now left and the Patriarch,after the pogrom in 1955 and later.

There is no such pogrom-shameful things happened-that is right and money will be paid if reuested-but I don't think you know the definiton of pogrom-and that so called "pogrom" is not proven-nor wiely accepted, I think the Greeks are the only people that call it pogrom



http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=85438&highl ight=istanbul

Which contains two points of interest:

a) Newspaper article of a vandalism on an exhibition on the 1955 pogrom

b) Turkish members stating that there was indeed a pogrom, maybe not anti-Greek in focus, but that there was a pogrom with possible political links, the implication being, of course, that the pogrom was an organised event (again, if it was politically driven).

From www.dictionary.com on the word "pogrom":
An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews.


*Disclaimer: I am not wishing to start a debate on this, nor to stir up anti-Turkish feeling, but a point was made in this thread, which I felt must be addressed since it reeks of *denialism*.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 06:20
Originally posted by The Guardian

Originally posted by RomiosArktos

When the Greeks were asked to leave Turkey,it was asked from them to become Muslim,did you know this?

no such thing happened




Can you prove that it did not?

By the same token, can Romios prove that it did?

And people, I want sources. (No, Politiki Kouzina = A Touch of Spice does not count.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 08:07

Originally posted by erci


magnificent

tho 2 more minarets would make it even better and maybe a larger crescent on top

Yes, two more HUUUGE minarets to praise allah for giving such a magnificent gift to the people of Islam, and I definately hear you on the crescent.  

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